What if your most visible, most exciting product wasn’t your real product at all, but was actually a Trojan horse for building a much deeper, stickier customer relationship?
Agility requires more than just a willingness to change; it demands a deep understanding of what truly motivates your customer, allowing you to evolve your model in service of their emotional outcomes, not just their transactional needs.
Today, we’re going to talk about how a brand can embody the very principle it sells, turning a core service into a flywheel for customer retention, emotional engagement, and scalable business growth.
To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome, Mark Van Wye, CEO at Zoom Room.
About Mark Van Wye
Mark Van Wye is the CEO of Zoom Room, the nation’s premier dog training franchise, and the author of the #1 bestselling Puppy Training in 7 Easy Steps. He’s a systems architect who saw white space in the $100 billion pet industry and positioned dog training as behavioral infrastructure for modern life. A lifelong builder of scalable learning environments, he taught adults to code at eleven, developed a national learning platform for the Boys & Girls Clubs of America, and has spent his career designing environments – physical and digital – that scale without losing their human edge.
Mark Van Wye on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoomroom/
Resources
Zoom Room: https://www.zoomroom.com
The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://aglbrnd.co/r/2868abd8085a9703
Drive your customers to new horizons at the premier retail event of the year for Retail and Brand marketers. Learn more at CRMC 2026, June 1-3. https://aglbrnd.co/r/d15ec37a537c0d74
We’re proud to be a media partner for #MAICON26 – Oct. 13-15! Learn how AI can power your marketing and business and help you grow smarter. Use code AGILE150 to save! https://aglbrnd.co/r/7fe458ced0f04658
Enjoyed the show? Tell us more at and give us a rating so others can find the show at: https://aglbrnd.co/r/faaed112fc9887f3
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don’t miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/35ded3ccfb6716ba
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company
Transcript
Greg Kihlstrtöm: What if your most visible, most exciting product wasn’t your real product at all, but was actually a Trojan horse for building a much deeper, engaging customer relationship? Agility requires more than just a willingness to change. It demands a deep understanding of what truly motivates your customer, allowing you to evolve your model in service of their emotional outcomes, not just their transactional needs.
Today, we’re going to talk about how a brand can embody the very principle it sells, turning a core service into a flywheel for customer retention, emotional engagement, and scalable business growth.
Welcome to season eight of The Agile Brand Podcast. This season, we’re going all in on expert mode MarTech, AI, and customer experience, talking with the people and platforms behind the brands you know and love. Again, I’m your host, Greg Kihlstrtöm, and I help Fortune 1000 companies make sense of MarTech, AI, and marketing ops. Hit subscribe or follow to make sure you always get the latest episodes, and leave us a rating so others can find us as well.
And make sure you check out our sponsor, Tech Systems, an industry leader in full-stack technology services, talent services, and real-world adoption. For more information, go to tek-systems.com. Now, let’s dive in.
To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome Mark Van Wye, CEO at Zoom Room. Mark, welcome to the show.
Mark Van Wye: Thanks so much, Greg.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Yeah, looking forward to to talking about this topic with you. Before we dive in though, why don’t you give a little background on yourself and your role at Zoom Room?
Mark Van Wye: Sure. It’s been 18 years, uh, now with Zoom Room, and, uh, we are, uh, the premier indoor dog training company in in America, um, author of the number one dog training book, last five years running, and I’m the CEO there, and, uh, agility is part and parcel to our business.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Yeah, love it, love it. Yeah, and definitely, there’s lots of kinds of agility, right? So it’s, uh.
Mark Van Wye: Amen.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Yeah, we’ll we’ll be talking about a, we’ll be talking a little bit about K9 agility, a little bit about customer and marketing agility, and all of the above, right? So.
Mark Van Wye: Exactly.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: So yeah, so let’s let’s start with kind of start at the top with the the strategic view of things and and really looking at what I referred to in the beginning, agility as as a flywheel here. So you’ve described dog agility as a Trojan horse for your business. Can you unpack that and, you know, how do you see a, how do you use a a highly visible and exciting service to draw customers into a much deeper, more substantial relationship with the brand?
Mark Van Wye: Agility is so Instagrammable for lack of a better word. I mean, it is it is the sizzle in marketing terms and and the relationship between the people and their dogs is is really the stake. And I came at this really quite innocently. When I first learned about dog agility, it was, you know, the fastest growing dog sport, still is, and I didn’t quite see it as the sport, not because I was putting it down, but it was less about the athleticism of the dog. It was like a childhood game between the owner and the dog. People think that dogs run agility courses. They don’t. It’s the two together. So the the person running the course says in English to the human, “Go there, then there, then there, then come back this way, then back.” Dog does not understand that. Dog knows how to jump through a tire, go weave through poles. And then running at full speed, the human has to be right there with the dog communicating in real time wordlessly to the dog, where to go, how to go, all of that, without breaking, you know, like if the coach was on the field with the players, calling the plays while everyone’s running and charging. And I was like, this is the most, this is what everyone wants from their dog is real-time communication in both directions without breaking a sweat. If you could do that in the real world, you would have the most perfect interspecies communication system. That’s amazing. That’s what agility is. It’s obedience. It’s everything it’s just the core part of this interspecies communication. It’s not a dog sport. And so coming at it that way, that’s where I thought other people could get hooked by the fun flash of it, but end up with dogs that were the greatest part of their lives.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: And I have to confess, I’ve seen a lot of, me and my wife have watched many a dog agility, uh, competition on on TV at at at the very least. So I I know anyone who’s not familiar with it, definitely recommend you you watch it just to kind of see what see what we’re talking about here as well. Um, so let’s let’s talk a little bit more about, you know, how this how this then connects to the the customer experience. And and so you’ve said that your system is designed to deliver positive emotional outcomes on every visit, even with a new trainer. So from that customer experience design perspective, what, you know, what processes or environmental factors have you engineered into that Zoom Room experience to make sure that that happens?
Mark Van Wye: It starts with the four walls. So the centerpiece of the Zoom Room is the gym. And even if you’re there for a puppy class, you just came in with a puppy, not to do agility, you’re there for puppy training. You can’t not see all the agility stuff everywhere. And you’re not seeing the stuff that you and your wife saw on ESPN. You’re not seeing these incredible, you know, shepherds and you’re seeing little teacup Chihuahuas jumping over the things in the photos. You’re seeing big bulldogs, and you’re going, “Wait, any dog can do agility?” Maybe not at the national trials, but at Zoom Room, you can. And you’re seeing the equipment and you’re starting to develop this aspirational sense of like, that seems really cool. And it’s no secret. When you came in, probably you’re coming in just as an agility class is leaving, and you’re seeing some of that happening. And so you’re already getting that curiosity, and even in the puppy classes, we’ll start to bring the things down very low so that it’s safe for growing joints and muscles to just start to test out a little bit what that feels like. And then we give you the chance to feel the pride of teaching your dog how to jump through a hoop or, you know, um, because our motto is we don’t train dogs, we train the people who love them. And so you’re going to come, or you and your wife are going to come with your dog, at first maybe once, twice a week. And this thing that you thought would be obligatory at first then becomes a habit and it becomes something that you is your favorite part of the week and you’ve developed this community of people and that emotional pride you feel in what you accomplished with your dog, and in this company of like-minded people is just absolutely electric and so positive. And you maybe haven’t even done the agility yet, but it was those images that you saw online that maybe brought you in and got you curious at the first part.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Yeah, so it’s, I mean, so there’s a couple things going on there. I mean, one is, you know, you’re building you’re building a community of of dogs that participate in this, of course, but you’re building a community of people, right? That are that are all maybe at different levels or their dogs are at different levels in agility or whatever. But it’s, uh, you know, it’s so it’s got that aspirational component that you mentioned, but it’s also got that kind of that regular, I mean, that regular community aspect, right? That that that then, you know, the the brand benefits, I mean, everybody benefits from it, but the brand benefits from it as well, right?
Mark Van Wye: Completely. I mean, community-centric is a core part of our values because it’s just there’s not a lot of places where you can come together and be with other people and their dogs in a completely safe way that is monitored as as opposed to unmonitored like at a dog park. And we’re always having different fundraisers and activities and events that would appeal that people can bring their dogs to. And people every day somewhere in the country are making a new friend because kind of like a mommy and me class, they’re going through a puppy or a class specifically for newly rescued dogs together, where someone else is asking the question that they were too embarrassed to ask themselves and they look over and they’re like, thank you for asking that. I was embarrassed, but that’s what I want to know, too. And, um, and the classes are so fun. So it’s it’s just nice to have a place where people can actually go today and political lines don’t matter, nothing else matters. Everyone loves their dog. And it’s it’s it’s just incredibly warm.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Well, and I and I do think, I mean, you mentioned like dog parks and stuff, and, you know, there there’s there’s there’s nice parts about those as well. But I think the the structure here and kind of maybe the the the guardrails, so to speak, for lack of a better term, makes it makes it safe, makes it welcoming. And and and for those that, you know, if I were bringing my dog for the very first time, had no idea what me or my dog would have no idea what we were doing, there’s uh it’s okay, right? The that some people are are more expert and and some not, right?
Mark Van Wye: And the other and the fact that you’re there tells me so much about you because you could have dropped your dog off somewhere, right? But you’re there to actually get sweaty and run around and do it, because we’re not touching your dog. We’re not your dog is on leash with you. We’re going to say, “Greg, so what I want you to do now with your dog is blah, blah, blah.” And you’re going to do all the work. We’re just giving you the skills that’s going to translate when you get home. And that really, really changes the dynamic. So the kinds of people that are coming are the people who clearly want their dogs integrated. You’re someone who I would know, if you come to class, you want to take your dog to work, you want to take your dog shopping, you want to take your dog on trips, you want to go hiking with your dog. And that is what we’re about. We’re a crucible, we’re a gym, a place where you come in and you’re going to learn these real-world skills to have a socialized dog, a dog that you can take for a walk, you can take on errands, and it’s just going to be chill. It’s not about a dog who plays the piano or, you know, not that we couldn’t do that, but our focus is on giving you the dog that when your friends invite you to go to the pub and have a beer with them and you know, they and they’re your cool friends and their cool dog are going, you don’t feel anxiety, but what if my dog barks or pees or whatever. Um, you’re going to learn that type of socialization at Zoom Room around all these other people and dogs, and you’ll feel very comfortable. And that’s that’s who’s attracted to us and what we really specialize in.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: So, how do you then measure success? I mean, you know, you’ve talked about a few things as far as, you know, it’s it’s kind of a it’s definitely an engaging and a and a sticky, you know, experience so to speak of, you know, people want to want to grow, want to um, want to keep them and their dogs learning and and stuff like that. But, you know, what how do you measure success with customers and and things like that?
Mark Van Wye: We use a lot of KPIs and a lot of centralized dashboards. You know, we are a franchise, so we’ve got almost 60 locations around the country and growing. And so for us, it’s a question of the stickiness. You know, we’re not looking for that first-day package that you buy. This isn’t like give us thousands of dollars. We’re we’re looking for something where this is going to be a repeat business, something that’s an ongoing, I often use the metaphor of thinking of how weird it would sound if I said, “Hey, next week I’m graduating yoga.” You know, this is something that should have no milestone. You don’t graduate a Zoom Room class. It’s something you keep steeping and steeping yourself in and there’s no end of things that we can do together. So, um, I care about lifetime value. I care about, um, referrals. I mean, when I look at our CAC, the cost to acquire a customer, that is kept very low for us and that is through on to some degree skill on the advertising side, but a lot of it is deflated by the number of client referrals we get. So that word to mouth word of mouth is is so valuable to us, obviously, as a growing company, but valuable to us financially as well, because the ratio of that lifetime value to the CAC is through the roof. Um, we care about the cash flow of our franchisees, so we don’t just measure lifetime value, we look at like short-term returns like how quickly, like within eight-week cycle, you are able to, um, recoup any of the investments that you’ve put in so far. Um, and those those are just some of the key ones. At the end of the day, what I as a franchisor care about is scalability. So if you did something at your store and it was so incredible and it was working for you, but it wasn’t something I felt would translate to everybody, that is not that doesn’t hit my success meter. It has to be something that will work everywhere for anyone. If you and your wife go off traveling somewhere and someone else is in the store working, it’s going to be just fine without you. This is this is not a business that depends on a celebrity at the center or any expertise. It is a thing that is about it’s something that’s completely democratizing. And for that to work, everything has to scale, everything has to work, no matter, it can’t be dependent on any one person. That helps us keep our payroll down. So that’s another important metric. Um, so by keeping just the head count very low within each store, that helps with profitability as well.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: And so, you know, as a franchise model, then, you know, that that does add a layer of there’s there’s good and there’s there’s more complex complexity there as well. So when did you when did you decide to to turn it into a franchise model?
Mark Van Wye: Day negative one. So it was designed from the beginning. This was not I this would not be interesting to me as like a thing to do in town. Um, my background had been in creating large-scale curricula that would be pushed nationally, designing programs that would be taught in, you know, to millions of people at the same time. And to me being able to do that with with dogs and people, that’s what’s exciting to me. The idea that this can can be placed anywhere in any reasonably sized, um, metro area. Um, that’s what’s really exciting. So that was from the from day one that was the plan. It had to be a headless system that had a solid technology stack and something that could be put in place by someone with no prior skill. You couldn’t have a cost of labor that would drag this thing down. It had to be something where, um, as long as you’ve have people that are energetic and passionate about other people and animals, the business will will hunt.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Well, and and so to talk about the technology a little bit, too, so, you know, and and in prepping for this, your your notes mentioned, um, you proactively not only restructured pricing, but rebuilt some of the tech not because of market pressure necessarily, but by just asking better questions. Can you, you know, unpack that a little bit, you know, what what does that mean from, you know, asking better questions and and, you know, how how does this lead to something like that?
Mark Van Wye: I mean, obviously the day we’re talking today, that’s the front page, you know, in every financial paper and business paper is how, you know, what’s happening in the software sector. And I don’t want to I don’t want to date our conversation too much, but the day we’re talking right now is a day that a lot is happening with software companies. And historically SaaS companies and any software company have designed software in a way that works for their own scalability, from from their perspective as software vendors. And we as merchants have to take a second seat to their needs as a software vendor. And I think we have I won’t even say we are entering. I’d say we have entered a new era in which software itself can be something that serves the exact needs of your specific taco truck, right? So like if you have this can be do everything you need, but if I were designing software, I’d want to make something that works for your taco truck and your yoga studio and your, you know, barber shop. That those days are over. And it can now be everything can be bespoke. And once you move into that bespoke area, you can ask the questions of, what do our franchise need? What do our franchisees actually need? What do our customers need? What do we as stewards of this entire ship, what do we need? What are the actual because you could clutter a dashboard with a million things, but where’s the signal, where’s the noise? What actually moves the needle? How could you build something that answers the vital questions that we really care about every day? Um, and once you ask those questions, now you can build that and you have a vastly better and more efficient system.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: So then, as Zoom Room continues to scale, I mean, it sounds like, you know, you started this with the intention to scale, with the intention to franchise, and so, you know, a lot of companies whether they fall into it or or they, you know, they they didn’t kind of do it by design, it it does make this, I guess this question a little a little different. But what what what what are you concerned about as far as like maintaining brand, maintaining business agility as you continue to scale? Because, you know, there I would imagine there are different challenges at different even franchise, you know, numbers of franchises and stuff as well. So, you know, what what kind of, whether it’s systems, cultural elements, you know, all those what what are what’s top of mind for you right now?
Mark Van Wye: I think the most things I’m just incredibly excited about. You know, the like dogs not a fad, famously, right? Dogs getting to be part of your everyday life, like not again, like this is not a pandemic puppy bubble of like, you know, the the flavor of the month. This is not going anywhere. So the the evergreen nature of what we do for people is really exciting. To me, for Zoom Rooms to be fun, like that’s easy and appealing, that’s easy. The part that I’m always challenging myself for is to simplify, is to make it easy. Like if if you were to call one of our franchisees right now and they said, “I love what I do,” that’s great. “I love my customers, I love my staff.” Uh, I, you know, all of that would be music to my ears. But the thing I I don’t know that you would hear and I want to hear ever more is, it’s so easy. Like I it’s really not that hard to do. I get there in the morning. It’s always going to be work, right? It’s a business and it’s it’s because of the franchise model, they’re not our employees, it’s their business. They need to work in it and there’s work to be done, but I want the systems to be so thoughtful that it is just not so complicated. It’s not so effortful. And to me to keep stripping away at those complex because the moment it’s not you doing it, you start to push out from that hub, you get in these layers of like, the old telephone game, you know, I’ll tell someone and then they’ll have operational support people. And by the time it gets to the franchisee, there’s been a little bastardization and then you start to see differences. And you want the the crullers at the Dunkin’ Donuts in Boston to be like the crullers, you know, in West Hollywood. And how do you get that consistency and that uniformity? And the answer is ever greater systems of communication and, um, without needing some sort of like jack-booted enforcement of going in, you know, on like with the white glove and, you know, checking the crullers every day. So that’s always a challenge is is carrots and sticks and that sort of like maintaining that consistency, but I want to just keep designing systems that get, you know, if there’s a way to take something that takes six hours down to one minute, fantastic.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Love it. Well, Mark, it’s been great talking with you today. Um, really, uh, lots lots of insights here. Got two last questions for you before we, uh, before we wrap up. Uh, first one, if we were having this interview one year from today, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?
Mark Van Wye: I would love if it were about that you had just run into one of our franchisees and they said that exact same thing. They said, it’s gotten so easy. I come in in the morning and so much of the work that I used to have to do was kind of done for me. And it’s just I get to focus my attention on being present for my customers because only me and my staff can do that. And, um, we’re not and all the other stuff that goes with running a business, it’s like it’s running itself. That would be my dream.
Greg Kihlstrtöm: Love it, love it. Well, last question for you. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
Mark Van Wye: It’s a great question. I guess it I don’t even think about it. It the the nature of what I do is I’m writing a book one day and writing code another day and then I’m like out in the field talking to people or I’m like an introvert holdup. Yesterday I was lying on the ground covered with like 37 Norfolk terrier puppies crawling all over me. It’s like different things all the time. And, uh, if I have a free moment, I’m like designing a new board game. So it’s just my brain doesn’t know how not to do that. And I just, yeah, it’s it’s not a practice to stay sharp and focused and, you know, ready to move. I I just got born wired that way.
