What’s the hidden tax your organization pays every time a creative asset moves from a design tool to a marketing platform, and how can you shorten the time to gain important insights about how your campaigns perform?
Agility requires more than just speed. It demands that we eliminate the friction between our systems and processes so teams can move from concept to customer with minimal translation errors and maximum impact. It also means that we need to find the best ways to understand campaign performance without requiring everyone in marketing to be a data scientist.
We’re going to discuss:
- the persistent gap between creative design and marketing execution
the value that AI-based capabilities can add to the understanding of analytics and performance
To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome Ose Amiegheme, Head of Email Product at Intuit Mailchimp.
About Ose Amiegheme
Ose Amiegheme is a product leader building the future of creation and growth tools.
Today, he leads product for Intuit Mailchimp’s Email and omnichannelcampaignscreation experiences, shaping how small businesses create content, launch campaigns, and grow across channels.
Previously, he led advertising products at TikTok supporting multi-billion-dollar revenue businesses and helped launch products spanning GenAI creative tooling, campaign optimization, and advertiser control systems.
Before TikTok, Ose spent four years at Adobe helping build Adobe Express, where he worked across editor experiences, AI-assisted creation, and products used by millions of creators globally. His career has followed a consistenttheme of building products that empower creators and marketers to tell their story in a way that feels genuine but also standout.
Outside of work, Ose is a huge soccer fan andhe is excited for the upcoming soccerWorld Cup.
Ose Amiegheme on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ose-amiegheme/ / https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyejones/
———- Resources ———-
Intuit Mailchimp: https://mailchimp.com/
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Transcript
Here is the cleaned-up transcript:
Intuit Mailchimp’s Head of Email Product discusses removing friction from martech
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[00:01:12] Greg Kihlström: Hi, I’m Greg Kihlström, host of The Agile Brand. And here’s a question for you, what’s the hidden tax that your organization pays every time a creative asset moves from a design tool to a marketing platform? And how can you shorten the time to gain important insights about how your campaigns perform? Agility requires more than just speed. It demands that we eliminate the friction between our systems and processes so that teams can move from concept to customer with minimal translation errors and maximum impact. It also means that we need to find the best ways to understand campaign performance without requiring everyone in marketing to be a data scientist. Today, we’re going to discuss the persistent gap between creative design and marketing execution, as well as the value that AI-based capabilities can add to the understanding of analytics
[00:01:57] Greg Kihlström: and performance. Welcome to Season 8 of The Agile Brand podcast. This season, we’re going all in on expert mode MarTech, AI, and customer experience, talking with the people and platforms behind the brands you know and love. Again, I’m your host, Greg Kihlström, and I help Fortune 1000 companies make sense of MarTech, AI, and marketing ops. Hit subscribe or follow to make sure you always get the latest episodes, and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And make sure you check out our sponsor, TEKSystems, an industry leader in full-stack technology services, talent services, and real-world adoption. For more information, go to teksystems.com. Now, let’s dive in. To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome
[00:02:42] Greg Kihlström: Ose Amageme, head of email product at Intuit Mailchimp. Ose, welcome to the show.
[00:02:48] Ose Amiegheme: Thank you so much, Greg. Thank you so much for having me here.
[00:02:50] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, looking forward to it. Uh, before we dive in, though, why don’t you give a little background on yourself and your role at Intuit Mailchimp?
[00:02:56] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah. Okay, thank you. Um, so my name is Ose. I am currently the head of email product at Intuit Mailchimp. So, a lot of my work is building that experience that marketers can come into- to Mailchimp and create and send the campaigns they really want to target their audience. Before Intuit, I spent about two years working at TikTok, leading, like, uh, advertising product. And before that, about half a decade at Adobe. So, really, working for creators is kind of like my sweet spot.
[00:03:23] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So yeah, let’s- let’s dive in here. And I want to start from the… what I mentioned in the intro, the- the strategic shift and- and closing- closing some of these gaps. So, the new Mailchimp integration with Canva addresses some of the longstanding workflow gaps between design and email deployment. From a product strategy perspective, what was the critical business or customer challenge that made solving this a top priority for Mailchimp?
[00:03:54] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah, this- this was a very, very fun one to work on. So, you know, marketers love Canva, and we al- we always found a situation where people would like, do all of their designs in Canva and want to come send an email in Mailchimp, and would often have to download the email as a flat JPEG file, put it into Mailchimp and send it. But that was a huge problem because it meant that your email might not necessarily be on brand. It meant, like, all of the alt texts and tracking parameters you had in those emails are lost. And worst-case scenario, you may actually get flagged as spam by- by Gmail and other inbox providers because it feels very spammy. So, we went to Canva Create a few years ago and chatted with a few of our users and realized that, okay, people want to be able to create an email in Mailchimp, send
[00:04:39] Ose Amiegheme: it without doing any of the editing in- in- in Mailchimp. So, we decided to build that out with Canva. So, now a marketer or a designer will build an entire email in Canva, which is their product of choice, and don’t have to do any of all those other things in Mailchimp. They just bring it over, c- click send, and voila, it’s in their- their- their subscribers’ inboxes. So, it was a very, very fun product to work on.
[00:05:02] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. And it feels like a very organic process now too, as well, ’cause to your point, designers, marketers are… they’re already using both- both t-… you know, they’re already using Mailchimp, they’re already using Canva, but connecting those gaps. You know, how do innovations just in general like this o- influence the overall platform and- and product strategy, and, you know, what do you think should be guiding companies’ platform strategies as things like this become more possible?
[00:05:31] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah, this is… uh, it was… like I said, it was a very, very fun one. I think it’s also changing how we view things internally, but also how I think, like, marketing leaders should also look at things. So- so internally, I think there’s this, you know… the past, it used to be like, “Hey, get everyone onto your platform. When they’re on your platform-“
[00:05:46] Greg Kihlström: Right.
[00:05:46] Ose Amiegheme: “… lock them in and make sure they never leave.” But one of the things we’re looking at now is, okay, is like, how might we expand the pie with partnerships? How might we, like, meet marketers where they are? It’s like, “Hey, you love to do your designs in Canva. Do it in Canva. Let Mailchimp do the things it’s good at, which is getting your data, helping you hit your subscribers where you want to hit them.” But then for marketing leaders, I- I- I hear a lot of, um…… you know, this urge to get a lot of tools, and it’s like, hey, the way I see it is, like, before you onboard a new tool or think about an integration is like you got to think, “Okay, how is this going to change my team’s life? Are they going to have to, like, move to a new platform?” If not, just find a way to connect people to the tools they already have and figure out a way to, like, make those workflows really, really better. And that’s
[00:06:31] Ose Amiegheme: one of the things we try to do with this, this integration, just make what normally happens a little bit more seamless.
[00:06:38] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, yeah, that’s great. So let’s talk a little bit more about th- this workflow, this workflow aspect. And certainly, you know, AI and, and automation is a huge part of every marketer’s lives these days, and the continued talk about, about doing more. Uh, you’ve talked about the, the roadmap moving towards AI agents that can autonomously plan and even execute cross-channel journeys. How does an integration like this, which, you know, unifies a lot of things, unifies creative and channel data and, and that marketing component, how does all this act as a step toward that future?
[00:07:16] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah, um, I think as you’re talking about AI agents and AI and how we fit into the w- the world, like, it… The way we’re thinking about our roadmap really follows that pattern and that playbook of, like, meeting people where they are and actually help them do the things they do well. So, I’m going to take a sidestep from what we did with Canva and think about, okay, what we started hearing from people. So about a year ago, we asked all of our, our, our… We brought up a bunch of users and, and one of the things we asked them is like, “How are you using AI?” And they said, “We spend all of our time in ChatGPT and Claude planning for campaigns.”
[00:07:49] Ose Amiegheme: While that is great, the li- the, the AI models are great, but the challenge as a small business owner or marketer is, you put in whatever prompt you have and then you get some kind of, like, campaign plan, but that might be the same plan that your competitor down the street is getting. So-
[00:08:04] Greg Kihlström: Right, right, right.
[00:08:04] Ose Amiegheme: … we decided to think, “Okay, hey, how might we help you get a better bang for your buck while using, like, our AI platform?” So last… Actually, early this year, we launched an app inside of ChatGPT where you can actually log in with your Mailchimp account and ask AI or ask ChatGPT to do a plan for you. And what it does is, it does two things. It takes all 22 years and two billion email campaign of what we know as… Of what makes a good campaign in Mailchimp and adds it to your own actual data. So when you’re getting, like, a campaign plan, you’re not just getting something generic, you’re getting something that actually, like, understands you, knows your business, but also is, like, bespoke for that need you are. So to be very honest, our playbook now is basically say, “Hey, where do marketers want to do their jobs? How can
[00:08:49] Ose Amiegheme: we augment that with the thing that Mailchimp knows best, which is marketing, and also your prior data, and putting it together into, like, creating, like, a campaign that works for you?” I think the next step there is, beyond just like laying the foundation is like, how do you then scale that into something more proactive and something that’s more, like, just like organically great for the user?
[00:09:09] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, yeah. But, but yeah, to your point, the foundation has to be there to be able to connect these things. And I, I think that is one of the things that I’ve certainly seen with the, let’s call it the early days. I know we’re only a couple of years into this, but like the early days of, of all this generative AI stuff was a bunch of copying and pasting, right? It kind of similar enough to the, the Canva design to, to Mailchimp emails send. Its copying out of ChatGPT or Claude into something else. And-
[00:09:37] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah.
[00:09:38] Greg Kihlström: … each of those platforms holds a lot of knowledge, but the integration of those two, to your point, is, is where the real power is. And then, then building on top of that, then you can start doing some really interesting automations and, and stuff as well, right?
[00:09:53] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah, yeah. I can also add to that. I think so with, with our ChatGPT app on, on the Claude connector, so we’re not just giving you a bunch of like random ideas and strategies on what to do. You can also, like, post getting your strategy, actually create a campaign inside of ChatGPT-
[00:10:08] Ose Amiegheme: … and it basically gives you a list of campaigns you have to create across, like, email, SMS, and automations. But then you can also start to, like, vibe, edit, and create them inside of ChatGPT. And once you click a button, it takes it all into Mailchimp and you have something that’s ready to send. And it, like I said, it follows the exact playbook of what we’re trying to do in Canva, is like, you’re already comfortable working in ChatGPT, I don’t need you to bring you over to Mailchimp to start from scratch. Just meet you where you are, create an experience that, that’s great and that’s bespoke for you, but then just, like, get it to the point where you hit send and you’re ready.
[00:10:41] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, I love that. So then, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about, you know, when, when things like that are possible, when we’re reducing just, you know, the friction from the process, ’cause a- again, what, what you’re describing, I mean, that’s certainly… You know, marketers may have wanted to do that stuff for, for years, but the actually getting it done and the planning and all that, it’s, it’s so much not only moving, but, you know, just thinking through a lot of details and, and sometimes re- even repeatable details, but, you know, it just re- reduces so much friction, the w- what you’re describing. When you do that, what changes as far as measurement? I mean, I’m sure there’s always traditional KPIs that are going to be useful and, and meaningful, but are there other measurements that marketing leaders should be thinking about and when, when
[00:11:26] Greg Kihlström: they’re… when they have access to this type of automation and, and workflow?
[00:11:29] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah, I, I love marketers because like, you know, I haven’t met more data-driven folks than, than marketers.
[00:11:36] Ose Amiegheme: And the thing is, like, it’s, it’s very easy to, to, like, want to be like, “Okay, hey…” And the truth is, like, measurement is easy for, like, campaigns because, like, you can actually, like, measure something. And when I worked in ads, it could be real ass. But your, your question goes really into the worlds of this, like, overlooked portion of marketing, which is marketing ops, which is like, hey. And when you start to, like, reduce friction, it’s more of a marketing ops problem. I wouldn’t say that you can’t really measure things from a traditional campaign lens, but I think, like, traditional campaign KPIs are like lagging indicators. They show up after the fact. So you’ve simplified the workflow, you don’t really see impact initially, they kind of show up after the fact. So one of the things we have been looking at even internally at Mailchimp and I think marketers should look at is, like, really looking through, like,
[00:12:21] Ose Amiegheme: marketing ops KPIs, like cycle time and true puts and review time. So in, in, in stuff like what we’re trying to do here is, like, w-… in the past, how long would it take you to- to make, like, a back-to-school? We’re- we’re- we’re about to hit the summer and- and back-to-school campaigns, like how long would it take you to create a back-to-school campaign? Now, with some of these integrations and tooling and even, like, leveraging AI, is it faster? Are we seeing, like, less cycle and review times? Like, do you have to review things five or six times, or is two times good?
[00:12:49] Ose Amiegheme: And what we’re seeing is that, in the longer term, when you have, like, shorter, like, cycle and review times, it kind of frees up your team’s creativity to actually spend more time thinking about what the- the messaging of that campaign is gonna be, and that usually-
[00:13:02] Ose Amiegheme: … translates to, like, downstream impact in the outcome. So I would say measure initially for improvements in your marketing ops metrics if you have a marketing ops team, or just, like, thinking about how you can measure, um, just like the cycles for each campaign. But then see if, in the short to medium term, you can actually extrapolate that to actual, like, bottom line metrics, ’cause at the end of the day, we really need to, like, hit those, like, revenue goals that we all have, so.
[00:13:28] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and a- another thing, I- I love that you just underscored as well is it- all of this stuff lets marketers be more creative and more strategic and- and everything- you know, ’cause a lot of the- the foundational stuff gets taken care of and- and it’s- you know, it’s- it’s- it has to get done, and it did get done with very manual effort and stuff. So, you know, I- I- to me, that’s one of the- the biggest benefits of using automation and- and AI for things is- is just that, so.
[00:14:02] Greg Kihlström: Let’s talk a little bit more about- about AI and- and analytics as well, ’cause I know, um, Intuit Mailchimp also made another important announcement for its analytics AI functionality.
[00:14:14] Greg Kihlström: Tell us a little bit about that. You know, so it’s native conversational analytics agent in Mailchimp. You know, maybe tell us a little bit about that and- and what it- what it can do.
[00:14:22] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah. I think we- we- we just released a product called Analytics AI, and I think the name is kind of self-explanatory, like AI for your analytics. But I think what’s more important is why we decided to do this. Everyone who’s worked in marketing, we- we all want to be data-driven, and we have so many sources of data. And quite frankly, you ask for data and you get a dashboard, and dashboards are really, really great, but the truth is, like, they don’t tell you what I call the so what. So it’s like, hey, you get like this, like, blanket thing that 35% of people performed said actions and you don’t really know why. And what we’re trying to really do here is stopping you to have to do, like, a lot of, like, backend queries or putting things in a spreadsheet. It’s like, hey, you have all of your data sources. All of those, like, really important questions that you have,
[00:15:08] Ose Amiegheme: can you just, like, type it into your chat that really understands your performance data and under- and understands, like, your- your- your past campaign history? And then you get insights that are really, really tailored for you. So it’s less about, like, here’s a spreadsheet and you see a number that is like, oh, 35%. It’s like, what does 35% mean for my business?
[00:15:27] Ose Amiegheme: And how can I actually, like, take that into doing something, um, that- that- that- that scales into another campaign? But the truth is, like, I- I feel like this is just like the first level of what we can do. So what the problem we’re solving now is, like, data and insights that actually matter to you. But I feel like the next evolution of this could be ins- like, we don’t know what we don’t know, like. And so for people who are new to marketing, you’d-
[00:15:50] Ose Amiegheme: … actually don’t know the right questions to ask AI, is like, can we actually now start to get proactive insights? It can be like, “Okay, Greg, you ran this campaign. Here’s what we’re seeing and here’s what you should do next.” And I feel like that’s gonna be the next- next evolution of this product. But it’s something that we’re really, really excited for, and we’re getting-
[00:16:07] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:07] Ose Amiegheme: … lots of great feedback from- from all of our users who- who have tried this out.
[00:16:12] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, and I mean, it’s- it’s- it’s so key, because I know so many people are switching between, you know, Shopify and their website and- and their AI and- and stuff like that, you know. So you’ve got- you’ve got all that w- in one place to be able to ask questions of it, and I- I think that is, you know, whether you’re a- a large marketing team or a small marketing team, you know, the- the problem remains that if you have to hop from place to place, you’re not getting the full story, right?
[00:16:40] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah. Yeah. You’re absolutely right, and- and- and you- you- you mentioned Shopify, and it’s one of the o- other partners we have where we’re actually also embedded in Shopify Sidekick, which is also, like, their version of, like, this conversational thing, where… And ov- obviously, Shopify data is also connected to Mailchimp, so like you said, like, you’re not just asking, like, a bunch of random questions. You’re asking questions that are directly tied to your business. You’re, like, mapping your marketing outcomes and maybe marketing spend to actual business goals. And like I said earlier, when you ask a question, like, it- it tells you the so what. It tells you the why things happen, not just a bunch of, like, “Hey, you ran this campaign and it- it led to X amount of revenue,” that doesn’t really mean anything and is not necessarily actionable.
[00:17:22] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about what this means for marketers. I mean, again, you know, lots and lots of manual effort and hopping between things is going away. You know, it’s not completely gone. I- I know there are some marketers out there still doing way too much of that. But, um, as this stuff goes away through, you know, integrations like this, what does the- you know, how does the role of the- the human marketer evolve? You know, what- what should those leaders out there that are- wanna grow and- and retain and- a- and support their teams, what should they be investing in as far as time and focus?
[00:17:57] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah. Th- this is a very fun question I get asked a lot. And, you know- you know, there’s- there’s one angle which is off here, like, “AI is gonna take all of our jobs,” and then there’s the other- then there’s- then there’s the more reasonable answer, which is like, “Hey, AI is gonna take the jobs hopefully that we don’t want to do, and it can free up marketers to be more creative and strategic.” But I feel like that’s also an incomplete answer. I think the role of the marketer in the future is most likely gonna be like a brand custodian. I think as AI starts to get better at ex- ex- execution, but also at strategy, because it can actually synthesize a lot of data, I think…… the most important skill for marketers is going to be what I call taste. And, and what does taste mean? Taste is like your abilities to discern what actually makes sense for your user, and that comes from-
[00:18:42] Greg Kihlström: Hmm.
[00:18:42] Ose Amiegheme: … really understanding your brand, really talking to people to know what really moves the needle, understanding your customers, understanding your company. Being able to pull random threads from, from the world and say, “Okay, this is what makes sense for, for my business.” And I think that’s going to be the role of the marketer going forward. We’re gonna be like more like custodians of the business and custodians of the brand, and be, really be responsible for crafting what story we get to tell about our businesses at each specific times. So I would spend a lot of time, if I was a market leader, like asking my team to really invest in just like all the knowledge that about our business that they need to know, because that’s gonna be the key defining factor of a market of the future.
[00:19:23] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, love it. And then, you know, also looking ahead, you’ve linked design and email. You know, the, we talked about the, the Canva, Mailchimp integration, even the, some of the AI or the AI and analytics integrations. What’s the next, uh, what’s the next broken bridge, so to speak, in marketing that you think is ripe for innovation?
[00:19:45] Ose Amiegheme: Yeah. I, I think I started to allude to this a little bit when I talked about like maybe the next step in some of what we’re doing in like our analytics thing. But I, I do feel like the next step is more proactive stuff.
[00:19:57] Greg Kihlström: Yeah.
[00:19:57] Ose Amiegheme: It’s more like, hey, even with all of the AI things we do today is still very reactive. It’s like, “I have an idea, I go to AI and I do a bunch of things to it, and I, then I create something and it goes out.” But then, it’s like, I would see that bridge between like being able to more, more proactive stuff. So is like, “Hey, here is what you should do based off of what we know about your business, and here is how this is gonna play out.” When I worked in the ads world, there was something that was fun where it’s like, you’re running a campaign or you’re running like an ad, an, and that’s campaigning. Sometimes like we built like ML models that we help you like balance out your budget based off of like different campaigns that was going out. And I, and I see that really happening in like fully omni-channel like marketing goings of the future. So you have like your ads,
[00:20:42] Ose Amiegheme: you have your SMS, you have your, your email pieces, and AI being able to like really orchestrate that for you. And maybe you’re playing this role of a creative director, or you’re playing this role of like the manager who’s helping AI really do all of that for you. So I really see that, that bridge of like AI stepping in as your sidekick or an assistant, like helping you build marketing campaigns with you, is, is that next bridge that needs to happen. And whoever solves that is going to be, uh, a trillion dollar company, in, in my opinion, you know. (laughs)
[00:21:14] Greg Kihlström: Love it, love it. Uh, I’ll, I’ll get started right now. But yeah, (laughs) love it.
[00:21:18] Ose Amiegheme: (laughs)
[00:21:18] Greg Kihlström: (laughs)
[00:21:18] Ose Amiegheme: Do, do you want a co-founder? (laughs)
[00:21:20] Greg Kihlström: I know, I know, eh. (laughs) Love it. Well, Osei, thanks so much for joining today. Great, great talking with you and, and hearing your insights. I got a couple questions for you as we wrap up here. First one, um, if we were having this interview one year from today, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?
[00:21:37] Ose Amiegheme: Oh, my God, the Niners winning the Super Bowl.
[00:21:39] Greg Kihlström: (laughs)
[00:21:39] Ose Amiegheme: I’m just kidding. (laughs)
[00:21:42] Greg Kihlström: Hey. Anything’s possible, right?
[00:21:43] Ose Amiegheme: (laughs) Um, I, I think one thing would definitely be, or I wouldn’t say one thing we’ll be talking about. I, I would say one, one thing I want my wish to be is more like I, I, I would like us to, as marketers, move over from campaigns as the unit of marketing work. I think that’s really easy, because like a campaign is a self-contained unit that we can actually measure and see outcomes above. One of the things I, I will be interested in seeing is like how we can actually evolve with AI now, being able to like really link that to like business outcomes. So it’s less about like, “What is my Black Friday or my back-to-school campaign?” It’s more about, “Okay, I have this quarterly goal of like X, Y, Z amounts of revenue, and what is all the marketing jobs I can do to get that?” So that’s the, the, the one thing I’ll be working, uh, I, I think we sh-
[00:22:28] Ose Amiegheme: should definitely be talking about. And I know it sounds crazy, but I, I have seen remarkable progress over the last year with AI that I really believe that we can actually do this. And it, it will be something that we might be talking about next year.
[00:22:41] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, love it. Well, we’ll have to, we’ll have to reconvene here (laughs) and, and talk about it. That’s great. Um, and then last question for you, uh, what do you do to stay agile in your role, and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
[00:22:52] Ose Amiegheme: I think one of the things I do now is totally unrelated to work. So I’m a huge soccer fan, and, um, I, and I also just like love to read. So I, like I touched on earlier, I think taste is gonna be like the defining thing over the next 10 years with like, with AI. So I’m trying to learn as much as possible about things that are unrelated to my job, because I feel like the beauty is being able to connect pieces that don’t really connect ordinarily with your job into bringing pieces from your life and connecting that with your job. So like I, I read a lot of books that are totally unrelated to like product or tech or marketing. I’m reading a book about soccer called How to Win the Premier League because I’m like, “Okay, let’s see what we can bring from sports into like the world of like product and marketing-“
