In this episode of Brand the Change, Bonnie Habyan has a fireside chat with online community creator Scott MacGregor. Scott is the founder of The Outlier Project, a unique community and model that blends learning, networking, and experiences. Technology, the craving for community and the delivery of engagement at new levels with the likes of CEOs, Olympians, and navy seals are bringing online communities to new levels. Learn how the combination of innovation and technology is delivering new realities to people across the globe.
SCOTTMACGREGOR
FOUNDER & CEO
SOMETHINGNEW LLC,
THE OUTLIER PROJECT
PUBLISHER & EDITOR-IN-CHIEF
OUTLIER MAGAZINE
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Transcript
Bonnie Habyan:
Today, we’re talking about the power of community and how innovative online communities are quickly emerging, bringing together cohorts of professionals looking to leverage global intelligence, experience and knowledge to help them grow professionally and personally. I’m speaking with Scott McGregor, founder of a unique community called The Outlier Project. Now, this community is a bit on fire and delivers some unique benefits that could perhaps be the model for similar digital communities that can deliver not only knowledge, but experience. We’ll also find out how personal brands are driving his community and developing and shaping what it’s becoming. and how it will grow. So welcome, Scott. I am so happy to have you to talk about your unique community, and I think really give people some insights on a couple of things, how they can leverage online communities, how they can start online communities, and a little bit about what the future holds. Now, for certain, the pandemic has really shifted a lot of these fundamentals, really how people interact, connect, You know, driving organizations and peoples across all sectors to do things a little differently and really perhaps saw a little bit more of the surge of online communities. And I want to get your take on that. What have you seen and what and why did you start this Outlier Project?
Scott MacGregor: So first of all, Bonnie, thank you so much for having me. It is an absolute honor. So I love I’m going to love this conversation. I know already. And this is a fun topic. So. You know, I think community is unbelievably important, especially today, we’re in kind of a, you know, an epidemic of loneliness.
Bonnie Habyan: Why is that? Why is that? I’ve heard this so many times this year. What does that mean?
Scott MacGregor: Yeah, I think people feel isolated. I think, you know, does it stem from the pandemic? Maybe, but I think social media plays a component. I mean, I’m no expert, so I can’t really tell you exactly what the reasons are for this epidemic, but I think it’s real. I think, you know, community used to be maybe where you went to church, or community was perhaps the town you grew up in now I’m a little bit of a freak of nature and that I live in the same town I grew up in but that’s exceedingly rare so people have to look outside because we’re more transient I think you know, where you live and that actual community maybe plays less of a role. So I think online digital communities can certainly play a big role in helping people feel connected, but also helping people invest in themselves and invest in learning and development.
Bonnie Habyan: I think you’re right. I mean, I started to think about it, you know, what is some of the driving factors that would make people be very interested in this? And I think it’s the diversity of thought and it’s the ability to touch people from across the world. It’s not just, you know, a sense of community of being in a community that’s small, that you walk around and see people. It is a whole different resource. So I definitely think you’re on spot saying that. could possibly be a little bit of combo of things, you know, a time when people are feeling somewhat isolated. And this is a new tool for them to not only connect, but to grow.
Scott MacGregor: I totally agree. I don’t know that people are really looking for a lot of diversity of thought. I think people in the outlier project community are, but I would say in general, most people tend to gravitate towards communities that are very niche and that make them feel safe. And that’s a good point. That’s an interesting dynamic.
Bonnie Habyan: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. And I, it brings me back to my kind of premise. How did you think of starting this community? What was involved? And listen, it must be a little scary. You don’t really know how these things are going to go, but I really want to kind of have you take me back to that first aha moment when you said, you know what? I’m going for this because I think I have something.
Scott MacGregor: Well, I’ve always been an outlier. I’ve always thought differently it was interesting when i was younger thinking differently. You think well boy i don’t know why but i don’t think like everybody else and what’s interesting is that later in life in business. My divergent thought process and my willingness and desire to not go with the thundering herd, but to kind of go left when everyone else is going right. actually led to a lot of success. And I was like, boy, I am doing the opposite of what a lot of people are doing, which seems pretty counterintuitive. But yet I’m meeting success. And I realized that’s where the pot of gold lies. It lies in that road, less travel. So starting the outlier project was just really an extension of kind of who I think I am. And really a belief and a desire to impact people’s lives. And we’re on a mission to help people live their version of an extraordinary life. We have a saying that anybody can be ordinary, but we all have the power to choose to be extraordinary. And when you think about that, I think the key word there is choose. You get to choose to be extraordinary. So what that means is that you didn’t really need to be born with Michael Jordan’s DNA. You didn’t need to be born with Steve Jobs’ brain to excel. You just have to choose to be extraordinary. So every Navy SEAL I know, every Olympic gold medalist I know, every billion dollar CEO I know, every New York Times bestselling author I know, They all chose to be extraordinary. They weren’t necessarily the smartest. They weren’t necessarily the most athletically gifted. They made the right choices and they hung around with the right people.
Bonnie Habyan: Well, first of all, I have to ask you if you have read my favorite book, which is called The Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. I’m not sure if you have, but I love that book. It’s sitting right behind me. And so I, every time, you know, I think of the Outlier Project, I think of that a little bit because I thought it was just, for me, it opened my eyes to, oh my gosh, this is so true in how different things happen. You know, a lot of different things have to line up. There are a lot of different things that impact some controllable, some non controllable in your life and in events. And I think what you’re talking about specifically with the outlier project in this community are the things that you probably can control. So when, when you decided, okay, I’m going to go for this community, if you are a business person, right? You look at marketing, you look at market share. I did a little research before you came on and there is just no quantifiable number or any stats at this point to say how many online communities that there are out there. But what type of metrics or marketing or business model did you look at to say, Hey, I think this is a smart decision. Or did you just kind of wing it and say, you know what, I just know this in my heart, I’m going to be divergent in my thought as usual and just start to create something that’s different.
Scott MacGregor: Yeah, so I think like anything, if you have success, it breeds confidence. I had left a company that I had helped grow from five to 300 people and was very, very successful to start a talent strategy company 10 years ago. and I had no plan B and I knew it was gonna work. And I didn’t know it was gonna work because I was brilliant. I knew it was gonna work because I knew that it solved the pain points that I had. So I think if you build something truly unique, it will succeed. So the same thought process went through my head when I was thinking about a community that I’d like to build I didn’t really model it off of any other existing community. I actually think that’s a really bad idea and something that I’ve never done. So I wanted to craft something that was truly unique. And I knew it would work. I just didn’t know the extent that it was going to work. And I’m just a believer that if you do things consistently, over time, and you truly show up differently, it’s almost hard not to succeed. And, you know, that was my thought process in building it. I also, you know, quite honestly, had a business to fall back on and that business subsidized the outlier project for quite a while. So, you know, it wasn’t something where I had to make a huge income. It was just something I was passionate about. And now it’s something that, you know, I’m so unbelievably passionate about that it will eventually be the only thing I do.
Bonnie Habyan: Yeah. So, you know, you’re, you’re, you’ve unpacked a lot there. You’ve kind of gone in to explaining that past success and lessons have a giving you the confidence. has also kind of said, Hey, you know what? I know kind of how to do this. I’m not going to put all of my eggs in one basket. So you’re already teaching people some life lessons. I think everyone who, you know, becomes part of a community is looking to become better at whatever it is, whether a better person, better at their business. So let’s delve in a little bit into the community itself. What is different about it? What can people expect? It provides resources, but also experiences. So take us through that a little bit.
Scott MacGregor: Yeah, it’s an incredibly unique community. There’s probably nothing else out there like it. It’s everything from 200 live interactive virtual events, and I’ll tell you why I think that’s important, to about 14 in-person get-togethers all over the place. Everything from a humanity expedition to Nicaragua, to a very, very unique retreat in Rhode Island, to things like next week we’ll be at a soccer game with Brandi Chastain, who’s a two-time Olympic gold medalist, two-time World Cup champ, soccer hall of famer, and our community gets to hang out with her for a few hours at you know, her team, Bay FC in San Jose, California, and that’s just a unique experience. But the virtual events that we do, I’ve been very, very blessed in that I’ve built a gigantic network of friends that are truly unique. And they are Olympians and Navy SEALs and very prominent CEOs and Hall of Fame coaches and all kinds of different people. And I always thought, you know, I’d like to give people exposure to them. But exposure to me is, you know, a podcast is great. Conferences are great. But that’s one way communication. I thought, boy, wouldn’t it be cool if the community got to actually interact with Rudy Ruediger from the movie Rudy, or a guest shark on Shark Tank like Candace Nelson, or Matt Higgins, or Jesse Itzler, any of these folks. So that’s what we do is All of our events are live and they’re all interactive. So people get to actually speak to these people that they’re used to seeing on TV or just on a stage. So that makes it unique. Everything we do, we try to show up differently. Everybody has a newsletter. We have a gorgeous, glossy magazine called Outlier Magazine. Candace Nelson was on the cover of our inaugural issue. Jacques Pepin, who is one of the most famous chefs in the world, rated the number six most influential chef of all time. is on the cover that comes out tomorrow. So we’re just trying to show up differently in every aspect of who we are. We even were looking for a holiday that would represent outliers. We couldn’t find one, so we made one up. And it’s called World Outlier Week, where everyone in our community does something that they’ve never done before. And it’s sponsored by Brett Hedigan, who’s a two-time Olympian and Stanley Cup champion and owns a company called Hedygear. So just cool, cool stuff like that. Lots of fun and very, very different.
Bonnie Habyan: Okay, this kind of takes me into a little bit more aligned with what what brand the change in the podcast talks a lot about, it’s personal branding. And to me, all of this kind of aligns with your community concept and communities in general, because people are enjoying community, trying to learn, grow, network. So what are you seeing with respect to that kind of, um, the, the time and caliber of people who are joining the community? and who may be attracted to a community like the Outlier Project or something else. Are they invested in that own personal brand to help elevate themselves in a way that makes them more valuable? And, you know, give me a little bit of insight there.
Scott MacGregor: Yeah, I think our community, it was interesting in the beginning because we’re all about trying to help people live their version of an extraordinary life. We say, well, who’s our avatar? Who’s the person who’s going to join? Well, that could be just about anybody. Most people you would hope want to live an extraordinary life, but more and more as we’ve grown and as we’ve matured as a community, we’ve found that it’s primarily entrepreneurs.
Bonnie Habyan: Interesting.
Scott MacGregor: Interesting. I think entrepreneurs are looking for support. Most of them came from a corporate environment where they had some sense of learning and development built into their company. And now they’re out there as either a solopreneur or a small entrepreneur. And you need to seek out your own learning and development and joining a community that does that. is really impactful. So we also put together 30 of the top advisors and coaches in the country in different domains. And we give our members access to them through what we call office hours. So very similar, when you were at Bethany College or when you got your MBA at Dowling, you could go in and meet with your professors that have office hours. Our members get to sit down with the most impressive coaches and advisors literally in the world in different domains. So I think especially for entrepreneurs who need additional tools in their toolbox, that’s been incredibly impactful.
Bonnie Habyan: Yeah, you know, it’s fascinating to see what the digital landscape has enabled. And I do think that communities like this are able to really help people, whether they’re solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, or just looking for, like you said, another way to kind of be an outlier and to add to a toolbox and be strategic to help make them live their best lives. It really is quite amazing how this digital landscape has really enabled us to make that connection. Do you think this would have been such a hit or have gained such traction prior to the pandemic, looking at it from a technology standpoint, a psychological standpoint? kind of where we are in the world?
Scott MacGregor: I think so. I think people resonate, people want to be part of something. And that has gone on forever. You know, in my community, everyone, you know, you grow up, if you’re a male, you want to be on the football team, you want to be part of that community. Other people want to be part of a theater community, or I think people have always sought community. It may not have been in a digital format. It may have looked a little bit differently, but I think people have felt like outliers have felt like, boy, I think differently. And I’d like to hang out with a bunch of people that also think differently, that celebrate it as opposed to, you know, maybe look down on it.
Bonnie Habyan: Oh, I agree. But I think as well, that digital landscape is allowing you to connect people, make that interactive experience. You’re right. I mean, who’s going to have the chance of meeting a Brandi Chastain or, you know, some of the other folks and quality folks that you’re bringing in. It’s really very difficult to do that without this kind of technological innovation that has occurred. So I do think that is probably that interactive exchange would be a very strong attractive element for people who are looking or considering to join such a community.
Scott MacGregor: No doubt about it. You know, LinkedIn and zoom and has changed the landscape in terms of what you can do and how you can connect people. You know, we have about 750 members in 34 countries around the world and, you know, trying to connect 750 people in 34 countries without some sort of, digital platform to do that, be it LinkedIn, be it mining networks, be it Zoom, would be very, very difficult.
Bonnie Habyan: Well, let me ask you this. How do members best leverage a community? You know, once you join, it can be a little overwhelming when you’re trying to understand what are all of the resources and capabilities it has, but give some advice. Those who are actually joining a community, if they’re looking to get something really out of it, what do you suggest?
Scott MacGregor: The biggest thing is showing up. It’s amazing. So showing up and being engaged and being active really sets the tone. And having the thought process that I’m not doing this all for me, but I’m doing it also to give back, I think is a very, very healthy mindset to get the most out of a community. I think a lot of people unfortunately sit back and they expect, you know, almost to be fed like a baby bird in a nest. And, you know, you’ve got to be proactive. And if you don’t show up, you, you know, you really get out of it, what you put in. So if you show up and you’re active and you’re engaged and you’re willing to give back the experience, there’s nothing like it. And the ROI is absolutely off the charts.
Bonnie Habyan: Let’s talk about the ROI, both from someone who has created the community and also those who are participating in it. Where do you gauge success? How do you gauge success from someone who’s created a community? Where, what does that look like for you?
Scott MacGregor: Well, again, this is probably the outlier in me. You know, I used to be a chief revenue officer and I looked at all kinds of dashboards and was constantly looking at different metrics. It’s a little bit different here. I certainly could do that, but it’s really a feeling. It’s a feeling that I get in terms of just the reciprocation of all the positive vibes that are put out there every single day. I mean, there is not a day that goes by that there are not multiple mentions on LinkedIn or Instagram or another social media platform. that says really, really positive things about the outlier project. I mean, we really don’t lose many members at all. So that’s a great indicator that you’re providing people with the value that they’re seeking. So I don’t really look at a lot of statistics. I’m kind of gauging the feel of What are people saying and are people evangelical about it? We’ve grown literally just by word of mouth. We’ve spent zero dollars on advertising and it’s all been word of mouth. If we don’t have enthusiastic members, we’re simply not going to grow.
Bonnie Habyan: Yeah, that’s, that’s very interesting. I mean, I, I would say in this day and age as well, and we’re just in such a content driven world that I wouldn’t think there would be a lot in the way of advertising. I would imagine it’s all organic, which is a beautiful thing. And again, just kind of talks and speaks to where we are in the digital landscape, being able to have the best type of referrals, word of mouth. Really, it’s a grassroots sort of phenomenon in a digital world, which is interesting when you marry both of those. Give me a little bit more of a broader insight. What other sorts of communities have you witnessed? What are you seeing out there in terms of a trend and a dynamic of these communities?
Scott MacGregor: Again, the outlier in me, I don’t pay a lot of attention to other communities. I’m aware of some communities, but I don’t look deeply into what they’re doing. Again, I’ve always felt that was a mistake. Because I’m not trying to be the next YPO or Vistage or Chief. Those are all great organizations, but that’s not my vision. And I think sometimes it clouds your vision. When I think of communities, I mean, what I’m seeing is A lot of people are really niching down and getting very, very specific about the people that they want to serve. And that might be people that are just in marketing or just C-suite female executives. I think a lot of communities quite honestly won’t exist. They won’t stand the test of time because it’s tremendously hard work. So most will fail, but I would say that about any business. I think a lot of people think of a community and they think, oh, that’s just mailbox money. You know, I’ve got a big following on XYZ platform. I’ll throw a community together and people will pay X dues and I’ll make a ton of money. Most communities are not very successful. They don’t have a ton of members. They certainly are not willing to pay. One of the things that I love about the outlier project is Probably 99% of our members pay for their membership out of their own pocket. There are a lot of membership communities that are paid for by their company. And guess what? As soon as they’re not with that company anymore and they had to pay for it out of their own pocket, they probably wouldn’t. I like that. It’s why I bootstrapped every company that I’ve ever started. I don’t want to live on somebody else’s money. I want to know whether I’m successful or not. And, you know, it’s it’s either you attract members and keep them or you don’t. And I’m I’m very good with that.
Bonnie Habyan: But there’s also a technology component to it. It has to be a good user experience so you can build a community, but the channels that you use to bring these folks together has to make sense. And I imagine that had to be some sort of strategy in your mind as to actually how you’re going to lay that out, how you’re going to bring folks together, what sorts of interactions and engagements they’re going to have within your community. How does that play out in developing this?
Scott MacGregor: Yeah, I mean, we thought about really what the experience was going to be. The technology piece was not a big thought process. A lot of what we do is highly, highly personalized. And in the view of many, unscalable. And I was told very early on by lots of people that, you know, Scott, you’re not going to be able to have a conversation with every single prospective new member or every new or every new member. That has not turned out to be true. I’ve spoken to every single member and had a minimum of a 15 minute conversation with them, many of them hours and hours long, cumulatively over time. And, you know, they’ve said, you’re not going to be able to do handwritten notes. You’re not going to be able to announce every member on social media and celebrate them. And those are things that I guess we’re doing the unscalable. That’s challenging. Does it take time? Yes. A hundred percent, but that’s why people don’t do it because they want to press the easy button and they don’t want to write the handwritten note. They don’t want to announce every single member to the world. They don’t want to, they don’t want, the founder does not want to spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes with every prospective new member. I don’t know why you would start a community if you didn’t. To me, that’s the joy in doing it is getting to know amazing people from all walks of life. I mean, it’s just fun.
Bonnie Habyan: So you’re actually living your philosophy, which is, you know, you’re trying to take away all of those different barriers and obstacles that make people not be able to interact in a different way, whether it is that you’re meeting some, a Navy SEAL or an Olympian, right? You’re having, giving that access. So the same thing should happen with a founder. Now I will share something you did that I thought was very interesting. A few minutes before we came on the podcast, I get this text video message and like, Oh gosh, is it canceling? No, it was just a very enthusiastic, Hey Bonnie, looking forward to the podcast. See you in a few moments. A, that was extremely personalized and, and B, you did take away some angst because as you know, most people know who have a podcast or show, they just want to make sure the guest shows up. So I would say in your philosophy of showing up, you did that. So congratulations on really kind of, I would say taking that up a notch in terms of marketing and personalization. Imagine, you know, I’ve seen that it goes entirely through your entire community. So one of the things I always like to end on when I kind of wrap up a show is, you know, give me three pieces of great advice to those folks who are listening. Something they can do to become an outlier or to do something extraordinarily well in their life professionally or personally. What are some things that you could maybe give some actionable tips to a few of the folks who say, hey, how can I brand myself better?
Scott MacGregor: I’ll give you the first three things that pop into my head, but these are going to be super basic. But even though they’re basic, I would say most people don’t do these things. I would say first, focus on impact. Don’t focus on income. By focusing on impact, the income will come. And you can’t fake it. You’ve got to truly care only about impact. And that’s how I live my life every single day. You know, at the end of the day, Bonnie, no one’s going to care about the companies I’ve built. No one’s going to care about the books I’ve written. Nobody’s going to care about the house I live in or the car I drive. They are going to care about the impact I’ve made.
Bonnie Habyan: Yeah. And, and that can have a ripple effect. So you’re right. If you really focus on making that impact, the other things will, will, will come.
Scott MacGregor: Yeah. Good things would even call it karma. You can call it a million different things, but you know, good things happen. They’ve happened my whole life by not focusing, uh, on the, you know, the outcome or the income, but really focusing on the impact. The second one, I’m going to take these from a high school journalism teacher, Frank Baron, that changed my life. I grew up very poor in an affluent town, which was a weird way to grow up, and I literally could not figure out how in the world anyone would ever buy a car or buy a house. It just seemed impossible to me. And Frank Barron said to our class, you’re all going to be wildly successful. And I thought, wow, how am I going to be successful? I don’t have, I’m not narrating any money. I don’t have, you know, I don’t have all these things that everyone else seems like they have around me. He said, but you have to do two things. You’ve got to be nice and you’ve got to work hard. And I said to him, we call him coach Baron. I said, coach, do you mean that? Like, you think I’ll be successful if I’m just nice and I work hard? And he said, yes, absolutely. And that gave me so much wind under my wings because I thought, boy, those are two things I can totally control. Yeah, that’s true. I can absolutely control how hard I work. And I can control, I changed it from being nice to out care. So I can out care people. I can outwork them and I can out care people. And sometimes that’s a video message a half an hour before a podcast to let somebody know, Hey, I’m going to be there. Hey, I’m excited. And thank you for the opportunity. I can out care people. So you may do a hundred podcasts, you may do a thousand podcasts, that may never happen again. And that gets me excited. So that’s, those, those would be the things that I would say, focus on impact over income, be nice, out care people and work hard and you’ll have an incredible life.
Bonnie Habyan: Wow. Mr. Barron, you know what? There’s a teacher, you know, a funny story, the same thing with me that had such an impact and talking about making an impact, teachers make an incredible impact. So I hope Mr. Barron knows a little bit about your, your, you know, kind of where you’ve gone in life and how things have worked out. I hope you were able at some point to thank him for that little piece of advice that he said that has really fueled your entire trajectory. Very, very fascinating stuff.
Scott MacGregor: And I would say I’ll throw in a bonus. Listen to your epic TED Talk about your mom, Bess. Thank you. And the 10 lessons that you learned from her. Yeah. Because that’s how you live an extraordinary life.
Bonnie Habyan: You do. And you know what, I just wish she had been around to be able to see that talk, but you know what, I, in some respects feel like you, you know, some of the things you’re saying, if you want to have impact and you want to create impact, it all comes together. And so I think she’s part of that and was, was, had her hand in that a little bit from heaven. So, you know, I want to just say, thank you. Um, for sure, communities are hot and growing. And for those looking to grow their brand, digital communities can help you through network knowledge, and opportunities. Now, Scott’s journey with the Outlier Project serves as a real example of how digital communities can foster collaboration, knowledge sharing, and really transformative experiences for their members. As we look to the future, communities will continue to shape the way we connect, learn, and grow in an increasingly interconnected world. So thank you, Scott, for your insights. If you want more information about Scott and the Outlier Project, his information will be in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Innovation Economy podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe on your podcast channel of choice and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.innovationeconomy.show. The Innovation Economy is produced by Missing Link, a Latina-owned, strategy-driven, creatively-fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging, and informative content. Until next time, let’s keep innovating.
