Today we’re going to talk about keeping up with AI in marketing, what leaders and companies should be doing to stay ahead, and the future role of AI in marketing teams.
To help me discuss these topics, I’d like to welcome Cathy McPhillips, Chief Growth Officer, Marketing AI Institute which, among other things, produces the annual MAICON event, which this year will be taking place in Cleveland Ohio on September 10-12.
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Transcript
Note: This was AI-generated and only lightly edited
Greg Kihlstrom:
Today, we’re going to talk about keeping up with AI and marketing, what leaders and companies should be doing to stay ahead, and the future role of AI and marketing teams. To help me discuss these topics, I’d like to welcome Cathy McPhillips, Chief Growth Officer at Marketing AI Institute, which, among other things, produces the annual MAICON event, which this year will be taking place in Cleveland, Ohio on September 10 through 12. Cathy, welcome to the show.
Cathy McPhillips: Hey, Greg, thank you so much for having me.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. So why don’t we get started with you giving a little background on yourself and what you’re currently doing with Marketing AI Institute?
Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, so I have been with the Institute three years now, just three years this past May. And I come by way of a few agencies, my own marketing consulting firm, I worked at a content marketing education company, and I’ve been with the Institute for a few years. So I head up growth for the company, which includes registrations for Macon. It includes education, growing our education arm of the business, and growing our community.
Greg Kihlstrom: Great, great. So let’s dive in here. And it’s been tough, even someone in the industry, so to speak, it’s been tough to keep up with all the developments in the world of AI in the last few years. And there’s a lot of new companies popping up, a lot of existing companies making some fundamental shifts. So lots to talk about here and certainly value your perspective on this. What surprised you most about maybe this time, this time this year versus last year?
Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, I think a couple things. One, I feel like, you know, a year ago, we were trying to automate tasks, look for efficiency gains, trying to do some, you know, where can these tools make some small but mighty changes. And I feel like we’re now we’re to the point where we’re just getting better at creating some really highly tailored experiences for our customers versus just trying to have us save a little bit of time, a little bit of money, a little bit of resources where they’re becoming more meaningful, which I don’t know if that surprised me. I just think we’re getting better and smarter. I think that’s probably the biggest thing. I also feel like You know, we’ve talked a lot about marketing, how you can, you know, let’s move fast and break things. And I’m really, really happy that I don’t feel like. I think from a year ago to now, I think we’re stopping that. Like AI is not something you want to move fast and break. So I think we are getting really more, really laser focused on ethics, making sure we’re doing the right thing, being a little slower, a little more methodical about what things we’re doing.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah, that’s good to hear. Right. It’s because, you know, there’s definitely it’s not without its potential challenges and everything like that. So that’s good to hear. What about startup activity in the space? Certainly, you know, we’ve been hearing all I lost track of how many AI-related startups, whether those are truly AI or just startups that are tacking that onto their features to raise money or something. But what are you seeing in the startup activity? Do you see some rapid consolidation in the months ahead, just based on how many kind of popped up out of nowhere?
Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, it’s such a crowded landscape and you said it best. You know, you look at Scott Brinker’s marketing, you know, landscape and there’s like what 13,000 companies on there. And it’s like to the point where I showed it at a presentation and someone’s like, can you zoom in? I’m like, no, I can’t zoom in. This is, this is the best I got. So if there’s just so many, like you said, not all of them, not all of those are AI, but is representative of how many tech companies are out there, whether they are AI companies, tech companies who are now figuring out how to embed AI into what they’re doing, because they have to do it, do so to survive. But I do think that Startups are very, very valuable, in my opinion, for a couple of reasons. One, I feel like they help the bigger tech companies solve specific problems. And I think they become really attractive acquisition targets because there could be the open AIs, the Googles, all these other big companies that have the money that say, you know, we are missing this critical piece to this. And rather than having our team go out and do it, we have a company that knows what they’re doing. So I think that’s really valuable. And it also helps those small companies that have the talent, have the knowledge, have the resource, not even the resources, but have, they know what needs to get done, but they don’t have the heavy, heavy funding. So it kind of gives them a chance to grow. But I think there, you know, I do like the smaller companies. I feel like the smaller companies are the ones, and many of the people that I know that have started these small tech companies, AI companies, they’re the ones that have been in the weeds and the trenches and most of their tech is born out of their need to build it because they couldn’t find someone else doing it. So us as marketers, those are the ones we really appreciate because we’re like, they get exactly what we’re dealing with. And I think those are, they’re very, very important for them. And if they build this and they’re acquired good for them, but it does then in turn for all of us marketers make the bigger companies even stronger.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, I know what you mean. And it’s, as someone who I use a few different tools, and it’s certainly some of the like legacy platforms that I’ve used are rapidly adopting AI based features. But it’s, I guess it’s kind of a, it’s a good and a bad thing from a marketer standpoint, I would imagine, just because, you know, there’s all these tools out there, some very specialized But it also means now we’re kind of expanding how many tools we’re using. But, you know, do you see that? Do you see that kind of contracting over the years ahead as there are these, you know, some consolidations or, you know, is specialization kind of the way it’s going to be for a little while, at least?
Cathy McPhillips: I think in the short term, I think, you know, it’s just hard. I think just we can go in a bunch of different directions. One, we can look at the companies that are already in our tech stack and saying, okay, they have this AI component that we’ve been using this small tech for. If we’re already paying for the big tech, are they that different? Should we be just using what we already have? Or is there some value with this big point of differentiation in this smaller tech? And if there is, is there an API? Is there a zap? Is there something we can set up to make sure that it does integrate with everything that we’re doing? So I think it almost is down to, you know, what’s the use case? What’s the problem? What are you trying to solve? What is the best best tech? And then when you get into the bigger, if you’re working for an enterprise, sometimes you’re just like, here’s what you’re getting, right? To get through approvals, procurement, onboarding, all of that. A lot of times we’re just using what we have the means to use.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah. So switching gears a little bit here, you know, recently saw some stats that show that, well, leaders generally seem to understand the importance that AI can play in the growth and transformation of their organizations. They aren’t necessarily up to speed on the specifics. So, you know, one study I believe from Pega and Savanta recently showed leaders had a hard time identifying exactly what generative AI was, for instance, even though certainly on board with adopting it and things. So, in this race to adopt tools, what happens when adoption outpaces understanding of the exact tools being used?
Cathy McPhillips: Oh, so much. So the first thing that comes to mind is just kind of misaligned expectations. You know, we look at that Gartner hype cycle, and you know, there’s that height of inflated expectations, which then becomes the trough of disillusionment when they’re like, oh, we didn’t know we needed those people. We didn’t know we needed our agency. We didn’t know that we needed to do more than put in this simple prompt. So I think education is huge for that. I think there could be misuse. You know, we think we’re using it the right way. You know, you get your data in the hands of someone who really genuinely thinks they’re doing the right thing, and they put their customer data into one of these tools. So I think that’s going to be a big problem. And then I think there’s often, you know, ethics is something, a whole ball of wax, but then even just kind of like a suboptimal use of AI, they think they’re using a tool the right way, they get a bad result, and then they just stop. You know, so I think, like you said, understanding is such a key, key component of this. And as people are adopting it, I think that actually has slowed adoption a little bit because I think a lot of people are just like, I don’t even know where to start. So maybe if we don’t talk about it, it’ll go away, which is not going to happen.
Greg Kihlstrom: That’s the head in the sand approach to business, which is not uncommon, unfortunately. So, we’ve got a lot of people listening to this show, but I focus a lot on conversations about the enterprise. And so, I wonder what those organizations then, I mean, certainly some more education will be beneficial, but what should those enterprise companies be focused on right now in terms of AI and adoption?
Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, I mean, education and training is key. I spoke to a group of CMOs recently, and we talk quite regularly. And there are a lot of discussions on go to market strategies, strategic build, you know, building in your organization, all these big, meaningful, critical things to your business. And I talked about some really tactical AI use cases, and they were like, Whoa, slow down. I was like, you guys, if this is if you don’t understand this, you’re talking about these amazing, incredible things you can be doing for your business. You don’t understand some of these basics. So I know they’re busy. I know everyone’s busy. And it’s like, where does this fit in? But I think we just need to make time for it. So there are a lot of really there are free resources out there. There are podcasts, there are we’ve got an intro to AI class, we’ve got so much free content on our website, which is a great starting point. And many others have that as well. But I think just getting started, dedicating a little bit of time each week to education and training and then ramping that up. I think data management is a really good place to start. If you’re not ready to make that AI leap just yet, maybe start figuring out how you can make some meaningful changes in your organization as far as cleaning up your data, getting things AI ready. so that when you are ready to take that step, that your company, your processes, your data is in a good place for that.
Greg Kihlstrom: So, you know, leaders specifically, then, you know, should they be, you know, where should they be? I know you’ve touched on this a little bit just now, but you know, what should leaders be focused on specifically to try to make the best decisions and where to go?
Cathy McPhillips: We talk a lot about building an AI council in your organization, and whether, you know, especially at an enterprise level, if you have people in different departments, you know, and I don’t care if someone’s coming in at 22 years old, fresh out of college, if there’s an interest and a desire to see where this goes and be, if they’re interested, they’re excited about it, they want to be part of it, you’ll get people from all the different departments together and saying, okay, can we do this? What does this mean for us? Where are some opportunities? What are some of the risks? What do we need to worry about? I think that’s really important. And I think actually having someone who is a little bit of a naysayer when it comes to AI is probably a really good person to have on that team just so things are done very methodically and thought through. But getting together and just saying, what’s out there? What’s available? What use cases do we have? What problems can we solve? Is there AI to help us? And just going down that path, building generative AI policies, looking at a roadmap. If you start with one small tool in marketing and do some tests and pilot programs and can scale it, what’s the next step? And we know that even if we build a roadmap of some sort in two months, it’s going to be like, oh, that did not go the way we planned it. But it’s easier to pivot and adjust a plan than it is just to start from scratch and just kind of go in blindly and not kind of have a vision of where you think you want this to go.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, and I think some of this just speaks to, not even specifically about AI, but I think the pandemic taught us that we need to be able to be more agile when it comes to digital business and the digital experience. I think the hype, some of it justified, some of it maybe not, but the hype around AI has also taught us, okay, there’s these longstanding digital transformations going on, these five-year plans. And to what you just said, where was AI in that three years ago when it was being planned? And now all of a sudden, we have to reconcile all of this. So, it’s yet again, another lesson to, we need to make good plans, but we have to be able to adjust those plans when new information becomes available. Do you see that as this just kind of on the same continuum of all of that?
Cathy McPhillips: I do. So I started my career over 30 years ago. And when I was doing media plans, it was like we’re booking 16 weeks of broadcast television over the course of 12 months. And we had our schedules. Once we made that buy, it was locked in. Once that commercial, once that spot was produced, it was locked in. And it could have been awful, and we were stuck. And we’re at a position now where we could build our plans, and we can change it on a dime. So I think it’s such an opportunity for us to be strategic, make these plans, but be ready to move. And I think it’s awesome that we have that opportunity to pivot and to do what’s best for our business, optimize our business, optimize our marketing, and using AI to help us do a lot of that. So in the long run, I feel like it’s actually going to help us a ton, save us some money, have us be doing the right things with our marketing, reaching the right people at the right time with the right message, all of that. And I think AI can help us even more than it had in the past.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And so you mentioned the hype cycle, and certainly, despite what we’ve just said here, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of real potential here. But you know, there’s, there’s, there’s a lot to kind of sort out and, and we need legitimate sources of information and places to ask some tough questions. One of those that, you know, I loved going to the MAICON event last year. I’m glad I’ll be speaking there again this year as well. So, you know, looking forward to it. Can you, for those not familiar with it, can you talk a little bit about, you know, what’s the purpose of MAICON? What is it? Where is it? All those kinds of things.
Cathy McPhillips: Yeah, so MAICON stands for Marketing AI Conference, and this is our fifth year, if you can believe that. And so it’s really focused on, you know, our company’s mission is to AI literacy for all. We want to make AI approachable, accessible, actionable to marketers and business leaders around the world. And it starts with just having a basic understanding of what artificial intelligence is, and then it grows into, you know, what are your use cases? What are your problems? How can you use AI to help you? So the event is a way for us to not only get Paul, Mike and our team on the stage talking about the things that we are seeing the things that we are doing, talking about some of the big things. Mike does this amazing presentation on like 45 tools in 45 minutes, where he just does this rapid fire. If you’re looking at doing this, here’s a tool. And it’s not comprehensive because, you know, like you said, there’s thousands and thousands of tools, but it really gives folks like, oh, okay, I can do that. So it goes from the main stage, big picture, What is the future of a i what is the now of a i what are the things we need to be focusing on how can we get our businesses in a position. First success for the artificial intelligence and then the breakout sessions this year it’s great because in the past twelve months there is so much so many more stories to share people can say. Here’s here’s what i was trying to do here’s the tool i found here’s how i found it. here was how I changed our program, here are my results. So I love that there’s a lot of actionable tactical use cases, case studies for people to share this year, because I feel like that’s going to be a lot of those light bulb moments for a lot of our attendees to leave there and say, Oh my gosh, I actually can do this. and showing folks how they can do it. And then, you know, we’ve got this amazing Slack community of 7,000 people, and we’re expecting 1,500 at our event this year. And it’s just like, so nice to talk to other people at the same challenges, opportunities, thoughts we’re having. People are, you know, sitting at tables. It’s like a nerd fest. It’s absolutely amazing. People are just so excited to talk to people that understand what they’re thinking and kind of commiserate on some of the challenges they’re having. And then there’s tech there. So it’s where we should, we’re expecting at least 15 different tech companies there who, you know, a lot of folks don’t always love the expo halls, but in this expo hall, like people just really genuinely want to help. I mean, I don’t know if you noticed this vibe last year, but it was like no egos, no one saying, I’m an expert at this. It’s like, Hey, I tried this new thing. Come look at it. You know? And I think that was just a real, it’s just a really nice energy and vibe.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. It’s great to be surrounded by people that are focused on this. And, you know, I guess with that though, it’s like, how do you balance, I mean, Marketing AI Institute focused on learning and education, so there’s a strong component of that. How do you make sure that It’s not just, you know, kind of part of the hype and instead focused on real actual learning and use cases and stuff like that. Like, how do you how do you balance that?
Cathy McPhillips: Well, I know, you know, Paul. So Paul Roetzer is our CEO. And everything that we do as a company, every single person on our team is either a journalism major, a marketing major or a former journalist. We are not data scientists. We are not machine learning engineers. We come to this through the lens of How can AI help us impact our business, grow our business, lead healthier, happier lives? So there are always sessions on ethics and responsible AI. There are always sessions on what do we think comes next? There are always sessions on how can we put this to work right now? And it is the way that Tracy and Paul curate the speakers. It’s like, with a fine tooth comb, they’re making sure they are the right people to talk about these things that we know that these sessions are going to be practical, applicable, like I said, but are you doing things the right way? And are you going to be the person on the right side of history? Because AI, there’s going to be people that ruin things. And just having this network in this community of folks that we know are doing things for the right reasons for their businesses and for themselves and for their client customers and for their team members, I think is really important.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah. And so you mentioned the conference has been going on five years. I think I was actually at the very first one as well. And certainly, you know, talking about marketing and AI was a lot different five years ago than it is today. You know, how have you seen the conference change over the last few years?
Cathy McPhillips: Well, yeah, I came in 2019 as an attendee. And I left and I was like, oh, wow, that’s great. And then I went back to work.
Greg Kihlstrom: Right.
Cathy McPhillips: You know, just because things certainly aren’t where they are now, but I left there thinking of these opportunities and I was very guilty of saying, okay, I don’t have time for this. I need to get back. I need to get back to work. But I’ve just seen this evolution of, you know, I think by design, making sure that the people that are coming in to talk are talking about things that people can take action on. And that it’s not just, you know, theory and you know, inspiration. There certainly is inspiration, but that it is really something that people can understand. All the sessions are geared toward a business person, a marketing person, not for it towards a data scientist. We want to make sure that they’re understandable. So I say a lot that like, I’m our demo. I’ve been doing this for a long time. I’m in marketing. How can I help? How can I use these AI tools to help me and my job better? And I have, you know, it’s, it’s interesting to see how much in my day, I mean, aside from the fact that marketing has changed over the past three decades, but how many of the things that I’ve changed in my day to day over the past few years because of AI.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. Do you think that, I mean, on a long enough timescale that, you know, marketing AI become so synonymous that is MAICON just going to be a marketing conference versus marketing and AI? You know, are we, are we, are we, how far away are we from that, if ever?
Cathy McPhillips: We have talked about that, like, is Macon a marketing conference, an AI conference, a business conference, all of them? You know, we have talked about that. So for now, it’s just Macon. And we certainly have, you know, if you’re a business person and not in the marketing world, there are many applications for you at Macon. I don’t know. We’ve talked, that is a discussion that has come up numerous times in the company.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah. Yeah, certainly, you know, there’s a lot moving and changing, but no, it’s great. You know, as I said, I’m looking forward to attending and speaking this year and always find the sessions valuable. Well, Cathy, thanks so much for joining. One last question before we wrap up, kind of going back to the conversation about leaders in the enterprise. What’s a next best action that you’d recommend for a leader out there that maybe feels a little behind the curve on AI adoption and things? Where could they start?
Cathy McPhillips: This is one of our free offerings. We’ve got an intro to AI class that we run every month. Paul goes through about a 30 to 35 minute presentation on an intro to AI. I’m on there as well, curating questions from the audience for the balance of the hour. And it’s just a really, really interesting and fun class. And it’s just a great way to, you know, kind of dip your toes in the water. There is, you know, you can take that next step after it, which is our piloting AI class, but you don’t need to jump on our website. You can just find so much information on there without spending a penny. And I think it’s a great way to start. And there are, you know, folks like you and there are, you know, find, find someone, find someone in your network, in your community, and just start, start educating yourself on ways that can impact you and your business.
