In this episode
Alexi Hatch, Chief Marketing Officer at Acoustic, explains why the buyer-intent signals B2B and B2C marketers have leaned on are losing value, and what to build instead. She argues that intent has a half-life that starts decaying the moment it appears, that marketers face a timing problem rather than a data problem, and that durable customer relationships come from a first-party data strategy built to be activated fast — not from a bigger database. Greg Kihlström and Hatch work through the practical shift from rented audiences and third-party signals toward first-party assets, a faster and more decision-ready approach to attribution, and the KPIs and AI-driven personalization that separate brands whose customers feel known from those who don’t.
Key takeaways
- Intent has a half-life and decays immediately. By the time third-party intent is consented, packaged, sold, and activated, the buyer has usually already made the decision — which is why third-party signals keep losing value.
- Marketers have a timing problem, not a data problem. The constraint isn’t how much data you collect; it’s how fast you can move it between systems and act on it while it’s still fresh.
- Completeness beats volume in first-party data. The questions that matter are whether you’re sampling or collecting fully, whether it’s tagged correctly, and whether the strategy exists to activate it — not how many contacts you added.
- The best brands are the ones whose customers never feel like strangers. Personalization ladders up to customers feeling seen and known across every touchpoint, powered by first-party data made accessible across systems.
- “Every problem is an attribution problem” — but perfect attribution is a trap. Even a flawless multi-touch model is worthless if you can’t replicate what it shows, because the consumer controls how and when they buy.
- Decide on 85% of the data today rather than wait three weeks for certainty. Chasing the perfect model actively slows marketers down; the goal is attribution good enough to make confident real-time decisions.
- The database KPI shifts from net-new contacts to liveness. How fast the data refreshes, how many customers return, revenue from existing customers, and lifetime value matter more than raw contacts added.
- AI commoditized personalized content; the edge is the personalized experience. AI produces content but doesn’t activate it — delivering a personalized experience depends on the rest of your data and tech stack acting on the signal quickly.
- Timing is the last remaining competitive moat. Reducing the lag between signal and action is where the durable advantage now sits, and it’s what next year’s conversation will be about.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Why the decade-old marketing playbook is failing
- 03:19 — Alexi Hatch’s path to CMO at Acoustic
- 05:02 — How buyer-intent signals decay
- 06:14 — The real issue: data recency and quality, not just cookies
- 07:08 — What a strategic enterprise first-party data approach looks like
- 10:06 — Brands whose customers never feel like strangers
- 12:43 — “Every problem is an attribution problem”
- 15:19 — The KPIs that replace net-new contacts
- 17:34 — Personalized content vs. personalized experience
- 20:01 — Building around the customer, not the brand
- 21:26 — Slowing down to speed up amid the “just do AI” pressure
- 23:37 — What’s next: agentic buyers and optimizing for machines
Why buyer-intent signals are becoming less reliable
Intent decays the moment it appears. Hatch describes third-party intent as having a half-life: the signal has to be consented to, collected, packaged, loaded into a database, bought, and only then activated — and by that point the buyer has often already decided. The further a signal sits from the customer, the less it’s worth, which is why third-party data in particular is losing value.
The shift from a data problem to a timing problem
Marketers aren’t short on data. Hatch’s point is that the volume exists regardless of source; the failure is timing — how fast data moves from one system to the next and how fresh it is when you act. For enterprise first-party strategy, the differentiator isn’t collection (everyone can collect) but whether the data is complete, correctly tagged, and backed by a real strategy to activate it.
Why perfect attribution can hurt more than it helps
Hatch’s hill to die on: every problem is an attribution problem — but the pursuit of a perfect multi-touch model is counterproductive. Even a flawless model that maps every step to a conversion is useless if you can’t replicate it, because consumers control the journey. She’d rather act on 85% of the data now than lose three weeks chasing certainty she can’t act on.
The KPIs that replace “net-new contacts”
Counting net-new contacts no longer tells you much. The more useful measures are how live and refreshed the database is, how many customers return, what new first-party data you’re collecting on them, retention, and lifetime value — how much revenue comes from existing customers, not just this quarter’s total.
Personalized experience, not personalized content
AI has made personalized content trivial and commoditized — so it’s no longer the advantage. Hatch draws the line between personalized content and a personalized experience: the latter depends on how quickly you can activate data to reach someone at the right moment. AI generates content but doesn’t activate it, so the experience edge lives in the rest of the stack.
Preparing for agentic buyers and optimizing for machines
Looking a year out, Hatch expects AI agents to be making purchases more mainstream — a brand-new audience that raises the question of how you optimize for a machine rather than a person. Paired with the timing imperative, closing the gap between signal and action becomes the competitive conversation to have.
FAQ
Why is third-party intent data losing value? Because intent decays immediately and third-party data sits far from the moment it was generated — by the time it’s consented, packaged, sold, and activated, the buyer has usually already decided.
What does a strategic first-party data approach look like at the enterprise level? It’s less about collecting more and more about completeness and activation: whether the data is sampled or complete, tagged correctly, living in the right system, and backed by a strategy to activate it while it’s still fresh.
How should CMOs rethink attribution? Stop chasing a perfect multi-touch model you can’t replicate. Aim for attribution reliable enough to make confident real-time decisions — acting on ~85% of the data now beats a perfect answer that arrives too late to use.
Which KPIs matter more now? Database liveness over net-new contacts: how fast the data refreshes, customer return and retention rates, new first-party data collected, and lifetime value / revenue from existing customers.
Is AI-driven personalization a competitive differentiator? Personalized content isn’t, because AI has commoditized it. The differentiator is the personalized experience, which depends on activating first-party data fast enough to reach customers at the right moment.
What’s the last remaining competitive moat? Timing — reducing the lag between a signal appearing and acting on it, which Hatch expects to be the defining conversation as agentic buyers emerge.
About Alexi Hatch
Alexi Hatch is Chief Marketing Officer at Acoustic, where she leads global marketing, brand, communications, product marketing, demand generation, and go-to-market strategy. Over the past decade, Alexi has helped enterprise SaaS companies grow by building brands people remember, modernizing marketing organizations, and turning customer insight into business impact. Her work sits at the intersection of AI, customer engagement, and modern marketing leadership.
She believes the next competitive advantage in marketing won’t come from knowing more about customers but from responding to them better.
Alexi Hatch on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexihatch/
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Transcript
[00:01:40] Greg Kihlström: Hi, I’m Greg Kihlström, host of the Agile Brand, and here’s a question for you: What if the marketing playbook you’ve relied on for the past decade is quickly failing to get results? When customers rapidly shift their behaviors, agility requires being willing to rethink how you build and earn customer relationships from the ground up. Today, we’re going to talk about the shift away from rented audiences and unreliable signals toward building durable first-party data assets. Specifically, we’ll cover why the classic B2B and B2C buyer intent signals are becoming less reliable and what to look for instead, how to navigate a new era of marketing measurement when privacy regulations and platform changes obscure the full picture, and the practical steps required to build a first-party data strategy that creates durable customer relationships, not just a larger database. To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome Alexi Hatch, CMO at Acoustic. Alexi, welcome to the show.
[00:03:19] Alexi Hatch: Thanks so much for having me. I’m happy to be here.
[00:03:21] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, looking forward to diving in here. Before we do, though, why don’t you give a little background on yourself and your role at, at Acoustic?
[00:03:27] Alexi Hatch: Yeah, absolutely. So I am the current CMO at Acoustic, so I lead all, brand communications, growth, demand, go-to-market strategy, currently. And then, you know, I, weirdly enough, have always been in B2B tech my entire career. I happened to end up [chuckles] there in college, and I love it, and I, like, genuinely love the complexity of it and what we do. I genuinely love marketing and, you know, how at times it’s completely annoying, and it’s changing so much, [chuckles] and the tech is changing so much. But I genuinely love, it all, and so, and I think it’s really fun to evaluate, like, how do we, how do we deliver the best experience that we really wanna give our customers? And I think that’s marketing’s job.
[00:04:14] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah, love it. And, and, and agreed. I’ve, [laughs] I’ve, I’ve, I’ve spent a, a bit, a bit of time myself in the, the industry, and yeah, frustrating as it may be on some days, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s never, it’s never boring, right?
[00:04:25] Alexi Hatch: Yes. Never boring.
[00:04:27] Alexi Hatch: That’s for sure. For sure.
[00:04:28] Greg Kihlström: Right. So let’s, let’s start talking here about w- what I was teeing up in the intro. I wanted to talk about this, this quite foundational shift in strategy, and y- you know, I, I’m, I’ve been seeing a lot of discussion around this, I’m sure you have as well, about that traditional buyer intent signals are becoming just simply less dependable. From your perspective, what are some of the primary drivers behind the shift, and what, fou- foundational risks does it create for brands that don’t adapt their strategy?
[00:05:02] Alexi Hatch: Yeah, for sure. When you think about intent, it’s, um… Like, the, the further that you get away from your customer, the less valuable whatever the interaction is.
[00:05:12] Alexi Hatch: And so when you’re looking at intent, like, it depends on where that came from. Intent also, I believe, has a half-life, right? It decays immediately, essentially. [chuckles]
[00:05:22] Alexi Hatch: As soon as that intent shows up, it starts decaying, and it starts going away and becoming less important. So when you think about third-party data, how far away is that from when the actual first signal of intent came to fruition, and when did the consumer act on that? and so I think that that’s why it’s becoming less valuable is when you, you know, it has to be consented to, and then it has to be collected, and then it has to be packaged, and then it has to be put into a database, and then it has to be bought, and then it has to be activated on, right?
[00:05:51] Alexi Hatch: The person that has this intent likely has already made the decision. and so that, especially on third-party data, is becoming, you know, less, it’s becoming less, real and valuable. And then when you look at first-party data, when you’re, you know, more valuable, closer to the customer, but it really is dependent on how quickly you can activate on that data and how, you know, if you can actually get in front of them at the right moment.
[00:06:14] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, and, and I think a lot of the focus on the third-party data discussion, at least, you know, a year or possibly more back, was more due to the, you know, the impending cookiepocalypse-
[00:06:28] Greg Kihlström: … and, and all of that. It’s just like we gotta, we gotta stop using these third-party cookies-
[00:06:31] Greg Kihlström: … and third-party data and, and all this stuff. But, I mean, you bring up a great point in, in terms of it’s not just that, and it’s not just how the things are sourced. It’s just that the fundamental quality and recency, right, of the data is, is questionable, at, at best. So then obviously this leads to the, the first-party data discussion. You know, beyond simply collecting more customer information, which I think that whole cookiepocalypse discussion and, and data privacy discussion kind of led to, okay, well, now let’s start collecting all the first-party, zero-party data we possibly can.
[00:07:08] Greg Kihlström: You know, beyond simply just doing that, what, what does a truly strategic approach to first-party data look like at the enterprise level?
[00:07:16] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. I, I think it goes back to, like, how much of it are you collecting, where are you collecting it from, where does it live, and then, again, how quickly can you activate on it, right? Because I, as a m- as marketers, I don’t necessarily think that we have a data problem, right? Like-
[00:07:31] Alexi Hatch: … we have an unbelievable amount of it, whether wherever it comes from. I think we have a timing problem. And so when you look at first-party data, it’s, okay, how much of it are you collecting, where is it coming from, is it tagged appropriately, you know, is it living in the correct database, and all of that, but then how is it getting from one system to the next to activate on it, how fresh is that data, you know, is, is all part of those questions that you should be asking of, of how can we activate on it. But really when I think about an enterprise strategy, it’s great, everyone can collect it. How complete is the data, I think is a good question. Are you sampling first-party data? Are you collecting it completely? Do you have the right tagging strategy? but really it’s, is the strategy there to activate on it is really the core question.
[00:08:21] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, yeah. So let’s, we’ll talk a little bit about what good looks like. When you see a brand that’s doing a great job of-
[00:08:53] Greg Kihlström: … building, activating first-party data, what are the characteristics that you’re seeing acro- you know, across multiple brands that, that are doing this? You know, are there certain tactics that are working well? You know, what, what are you seeing there?
[00:10:06] Alexi Hatch: Yeah, I think it’s about relevance. Like, it’s when, you know … Something that I, I very much believe is that the best brands are the ones that their consumers don’t feel like a stranger to them.
[00:10:12] Alexi Hatch: You know? And it’s because they have this information and data, whether that’s going on the website and it feels personalized to you, whether it’s going into a store and the associate already knows what’s in your closet because they have record of everything that you’ve bought, right? And all of that is a very personalized experience, that a consumer feels. And so I think that this all ladders up into a question of what is that personalized experience that you’re trying to give, you know, and, and how are you delivering that to them. but really it’s the best brands are the ones where consumers feel seen, they feel known, and, and that’s, those are the ones that are doing it, and they’re doing it through collecting that first-party data, right, and making it accessible through all their different systems.
[00:12:01] Greg Kihlström: Everyone that I talk with is certainly, and they always have been asked to prove ROI and, and things like that, but it just seems like every … It, it’s like we, we always keep saying we keep getting busier and busier. I think we keep getting asked more and more to prove value and, and ROI and there’s certain things that are not helping, some of the, the traditional ways of doing this. You know, privacy changes from Apple, Google, others have certainly made attribution a little more challenging over the, over the years. How should leaders be fr- reframing their approach to measurement to account for some of these things and, and just do, maybe do attribution better?
[00:12:43] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. Man, do I have thoughts on attribution.
[00:12:46] Greg Kihlström: [laughs]
[00:12:46] Alexi Hatch: you know, one of the hills that I will die on is every problem is an attribution problem, you know? I mean, and I think that for the past 20 years, marketers have been asked to prove what happened in the past, and really the question is, is like, well, how do I make it better for the future?
[00:13:04] Alexi Hatch: Right? And so even if, you know, picture even having like the most perfect attribution model where you can see exactly what step and what channel led to this conversion, I ask the question, like, could you even replicate that?
[00:13:21] Alexi Hatch: If you even had the answer, can you do something about it? And I just don’t know, right? And a lot of that is because consumers are in control. Like, they are the ones that are choosing how to buy, when to buy, where to go, where to research. Brands have no control over that, so like all of those, you know, multi-touch, right? That’s coming from a consumer’s choice that we have no control over. And I would so much rather, like, get attribution to a point where, hey, I can make real time decisions off of it versus looking at it, having the most perfect model, knowing exactly what led into this conversion, and can’t replicate it, you know? So I’d rather make a decision based off of 85% of the data versus wait three weeks to lose out on something that I can activate on, you know? So I think the, the question that marketing leaders need to ask is truly like how valuable is, like, multi-touch attribution? How far are you gonna take it before you just say like, “Hey, we need to get this to a point where I can make a decision today and feel confident about that decision,” versus knowing every little nitty-gritty point that got to this conversion point. So-
[00:14:34] Alexi Hatch: … I think that we’ve, you know, in the, in the, in the need to prove our effectiveness, in a lot of ways we’ve gone too far and tried to get the perfect attribution model, and I just don’t think it exists, and I think it’s actually hurting us and our ability to move faster.
[00:14:50] Greg Kihlström: Well, yeah, and I think, that, I think that’s a common theme here and, and what we’ve been talking about is just the, the speed to action is critical. And, and I would even say the, you know, how consumers are finding things and, y- you know, I’ve had many other conversations about how the, the funnel itself is getting shortened because people are showing up more, more educated and aware, and so they’re, they’re showing up ready to buy instead of this, this longer process even.
[00:15:19] Greg Kihlström: With that as, as well as some of the other things that you’ve touched on here, are there, are there different KPIs? Are there other measurements that become more important than, than some of those, those, you know, those more traditional things? Like what should CMOs and, and others be really reporting on that reflect some of the, some of the real challenges and, and real opportunities here?
[00:15:42] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. I think that this is … It certainly … Man, I mean, marketers are in a place where we’re just being challenged from like every angle right now.
[00:15:50] Alexi Hatch: because as you said at the start, right? That, that playbook is being completely challenged, really for the first time in a long time. and so certainly measurement is a part of that. Like when I think about, data health and, and database health, right? It used to be all about, well, how many net new contacts are we adding to the database? That’s not really helpful anymore. What I really wanna know is how live and living and breathing is this database-
[00:16:15] Alexi Hatch: … which leads into, you know, how many are returning? How many of these, of these consumers are returning? What new data are we collecting on them? What information, how real is this first party data? you know, and so I think that that becomes more of a KPI where you’re changing it from- … contacts added to how quickly it’s evolving or how fast it’s being refreshed. That leads into retention and, you know, your consumers, are they coming back to you? and I think that that’s a core part of the KPIs as well. It’s not just, oh, how much, you know, how much revenue are you producing in this quarter? It’s how much revenue is coming from previous customers, you know, lifetime value. all of those things I think just become much more important-
[00:17:01] Alexi Hatch: … moving forward outside of, you know, some of the traditional and standard metrics that maybe we’ve looked at across the funnel.
[00:17:08] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Well, and then activating this and kind of going back to, to that part, is, is activating and, and having that strong relationship between AI-driven personalization-
[00:17:21] Greg Kihlström: … and, and first-party data, is that gonna be, uh… I, I mean, it seems like it’s gonna be a primary competitive differentiator for brands. Like, how… To, to what extent, I guess, would you, would you say it’s going to be?
[00:17:34] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. you know, I- my love and hate relationship with AI, I, I love it mostly. you know, but I think that when we think about personalization, the question really is, is it personal- is it personalized content or is it a personalized experience?
[00:17:50] Alexi Hatch: Those are two very different things, and I think what marketers have historically looked at is personalization equals personalized content, and AI does an incredible job at that. It has made it completely commoditized. Like, any marketer can now do it, whereas say just a year ago, it was actually incredibly difficult because we didn’t have the resources, the tech, the intelligence, the whatever.
[00:18:12] Alexi Hatch: And so I think it’s less about is personalization the competitive advantage? I don’t think so. I think it is the personalized experience that is, which then goes back to how quickly can you activate on this data to deliver that personalized experience? How quickly can you capitalize on the intent that somebody is showing? you know, how quickly can you prove out that, that you’re relevant and, and that you understand this consumer? And so I think that it’s personalization of the experience, not the content, and that’s where AI hasn’t quite delivered it, right? ‘Cause it, it produces content, but it doesn’t activate on it, and so you need other parts of your data in your tech stack to be able to activate on it in order to deliver that.
[00:19:02] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Well, a- and I think you bring up a great point in, just saying the word personalization and AI. There, there’s a lot of different, there’s a lot of nuance in both of those terms, right? You know-
[00:19:15] Greg Kihlström: … ’cause personalization could be, you know, insert first name here, which-
[00:20:01] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. To me, it’s always gonna go back to the consumer, and I think it’s brands need to be really asking themselves is have they evolved to deliver what their consumer wants, or are they still trying to deliver what they always have-
[00:20:15] Alexi Hatch: … to the consumer? Those are two very different worlds. I think marketing has been built historically as kind of we are in control. The brand is in control, and you can experience it. We will, we will personalize the best that we can. but that doesn’t mean that we’ve necessarily been built around the customer.
[00:20:35] Alexi Hatch: And so I think the questions to be asked is, regardless of what we’re trying to sell, regardless of our brand, what do consumers want? What is the experience they want from how they interact with us, how they find us, how they do research? And then asking you yourself, “Do we actually have the ability to do that? Do we have the tech? Do we have the data? Do we have the content? You know, do we have the people?” you know, and I think that that question alone is gonna open up a lot of conversation to say, “You know what? I don’t think that we actually are built to, to deliver the experience that consumers want today,” that will then lead to a lot of different decisions. And I think that that’s an important conversation for executive teams to be having right now is, are we actually building to what consumers want, and are we delivering what they want?
[00:21:26] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, I mean, with, with all the stakeholder, shareholder, board pressure to just do AI or, or, you know what- whatever the case may be, but I, I’ve, I hear a lot of do AI-
[00:22:01] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. Totally.
[00:22:02] Alexi Hatch: I mean, a- and I think that there’s never been an easier time right now from a marketing … You know, marketers are receiving so much pressure from different angles to do AI, to do better, to, you know, have better attribution.
[00:22:16] Alexi Hatch: There’s never been an easier time to forget about the consumer, ’cause you’re so focused on the tech or how your day-to-day looks or whatever that no one is taking the time to slow down and to say, “Hang on a second. I think we’ve forgotten the point,” which is we are trying to get in front of our customers to create an excellent experience for them. Are we actually doing that? you know, I’m a big believer in, like, slowing down to speed up, which I know a lot of people don’t like. They don’t like the concept of it, right? But I’m like, if you s- can slow down just for a minute to really think through what, what do you wanna do, what’s the magic that a marketer wants to create for these people- Then it will really help you speed up in the future and to truly deliver that. So, you know, I’m always gonna go back to it’s, this is a people’s business, you know? Like, yes, we never actually interact with a lot of these people ’cause it’s all digital, but there’s people on the other end of that click. There’s people on the other end of that purchase, whatever it is, and I think we can’t ever forget that regardless of the pressures that we’re receiving from whoever it is and however technology evolves in the future.
[00:23:37] Greg Kihlström: First one, if we were having this interview one year from today, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?
[00:23:44] Alexi Hatch: Man, a year from now feels like a different world.
[00:23:47] Greg Kihlström: [laughs] I know, right?
[00:23:48] Alexi Hatch: and I think that there’s, I would say that there’s probably two things. One is I do actually think a year from now, agents will be purchasing things, more so than… I know it’s kind of happening right now a little bit, but I think it’ll become a little bit more mainstream next year. And so, you know, we’ve been optimizing towards SEO. Like, how do you optimize towards a robot? [laughs] You know? Like-
[00:24:12] Alexi Hatch: … I think that that’s a key part of this conversation is like we, this is a brand-new audience. Like, I, I, what does this look like? I think that that’s a very real possibility in a year. and then I do think, like, that, that timing piece of how quickly this is all being activated on is really core here. technology is getting closer to it. I think strategy is putting more pressure on reducing the lag between signal to action. and so I think that that’s gonna be a very real conversation that happens next year. that feels like the last, almost last remaining competitive moat is that timing piece, and so I think that’s gonna be, talked about, too.
[00:24:51] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah, love it. And last question for you.
[00:24:54] Greg Kihlström: What do you do to stay agile in your role, and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
[00:25:00] Alexi Hatch: Yeah. agile in my role is, always assume that every thought that I have, has an expiration date [laughs] you know?
[00:25:08] Alexi Hatch: Like, everything that I know today probably is gonna be less relevant tomorrow, and to be okay with that, to be excited about, you know, learning a dif- different way of doing things. you know, I, I think a great example would be, as a marketing leader, like, looking at other go-to-market functions and seeing maybe, maybe marketers need to look, like, more like product marketers, you know, or product, product teams. And I think that that’s very true is that a marketing leader is going to look much closer to a product leader, in the future, and so I think it’s learning from others, really bucking that playb- that playbook and saying like, “Hey, like, let’s go and reinvent this thing,” and all of that. And really, it’s kind of assuming that, again, what I know has an expiration date, and we gotta learn something new, so.
