In this episode
Robin Ross, Digital, Analytics and Loyalty Executive at Activate Insight, explains how brands compete when a consumer’s AI agent decides which options make the shortlist. Recorded live at MAICON 2026 in Cleveland, Ross and Greg Kihlström look at what changed once consumer agents such as Instinct, Meta’s Muse, and OpenAI’s Dots began acting on a person’s behalf, why most companies are not ready for agent-to-agent commerce, what loyalty means when an agent weighs every purchase, and why measurement has to start from business outcomes when a brand can be filtered out before anyone clicks.
Key takeaways
- Consumer agents moved from hype to action in a matter of weeks. Ross said agents had been one of the most hyped and least real technologies, mostly a B2B play, until the last five or six weeks, when agents that act on a consumer’s behalf appeared.
- An agent made its first useful decision without being asked. While booking Ross’s hotel for MAICON, the Instinct agent asked for the hotel loyalty number, checked whether rooms were part of the conference room block, and then built a website combining the itinerary, schedule, and conference agenda on its own initiative.
- Commerce may become agent to agent. Consumers would rather train one agent on their preferences than a hundred; that agent then deals with a retailer’s agent. Ross noted that Amazon shut off Meta’s Muse from interacting with its site, which raises the question of whose agent the consumer ends up using.
- A site that isn’t crawlable isn’t ready for an agent. If a company isn’t showing up in GEO or AEO today, Ross said, it is not prepared for an agent to act on its behalf.
- AI as an asset rests on four areas: mindset, skill set, data set, and tool set. Redesign the business rather than bolting AI on, retrain the people using the tools, get data governed, centralized, and activatable, and align the martech stack.
- Available data is not actionable data. Data that exists somewhere but can’t be acted on to create a good experience might as well not be there.
- Treat the agent as an extension of the consumer, not as a technology. The brand’s job is still to deliver value to the consumer, now judged through an agent that learns from repeated behavior what that consumer values.
- Agents aren’t a new channel; they extend omnichannel. Sites need to be structured so bots can scan and search them, and an agent facing friction may simply go to the place of least resistance.
- Measurement starts with the business outcome. Ross said a team can check every box on clicks and still fail; the open question is how much an agent visit is worth relative to a human visit, and how journeys sequence among consumer, agent, and retailer.
Chapters
- 00:00 — When an AI agent decides your brand’s shortlist (live at MAICON 2026)
- 01:15 — Robin Ross’s background in retail, analytics, and technology
- 01:55 — What “consumer agents” means now
- 03:38 — The Instinct agent books a trip and builds a website unprompted
- 05:09 — How agents change the brand–customer relationship
- 05:46 — Amazon blocks Meta’s Muse and the agent-to-agent economy
- 08:41 — Personalization still isn’t solved: the “Dear Ramsha” email
- 10:53 — Four areas for AI as an asset: mindset, skill set, data set, tool set
- 11:38 — Available vs. actionable data
- 12:32 — What loyalty means to an AI agent
- 13:13 — The agent as an extension of the consumer
- 14:51 — The risk of algorithms compressing to the norm
- 16:11 — Agents aren’t a channel; they extend omnichannel
- 17:37 — Measuring when you may not know you were considered
- 19:13 — Human visits vs. agent visits, and the consumer–agent–retailer “throuple”
- 19:52 — What Ross is watching at MAICON
Why consumer AI agents just became real
Ross said that until recently, most of what was called an agent looked like good automation. What changed was agents acting on the consumer’s behalf. Instinct asked for a hotel loyalty membership, worked through room-block availability, accepted the conference itinerary by email, and then built a single website holding the itinerary, schedule, and agenda. Ross called it the first time an agent made a useful decision without being told to.
Will commerce run agent to agent?
Ross expects consumers to prefer one trusted agent that holds their preferences over training a separate agent for every retailer. That points to an agent-to-agent economy in which the consumer’s agent negotiates with the retailer’s. Amazon’s decision to block Meta’s Muse from its site shows retailers already contesting whose agent sits in the middle. Trust in how an agent collects and separates personal data will decide which one a consumer commits to.
Why personalization failures predict agent failures
Ross described receiving a Nordstrom loyalty email addressed “Dear Ramsha” despite being a long-time cardholder. If a company that sophisticated still gets personalization wrong, the issue is infrastructure, and there are basics a company can’t leapfrog. Ross’s prescription is four areas: a mindset that redesigns instead of stacking AI on top, a skill set built through retraining, a data set that is governed, centralized, and activatable, and a tool set in the martech stack.
What does loyalty mean when an agent is doing the buying?
Ross frames the agent as an extension of the consumer. AI is good at pattern recognition, so the agent learns from what the consumer does more often. Loyalty becomes a question of whether dealing with the brand produces less friction, more value, and a deeper relationship, as judged through the agent. Greg raised the risk that agents filter out what a person would enjoy emotionally; Ross compared it to social feeds that narrow to a single signal.
How should brands measure what an agent filters out?
When an agent excludes a brand from the consideration set, the brand may never see a signal. Ross’s answer is to start every measurement plan with a business outcome such as sales growth or churn reduction, then identify leading indicators. How to weigh an agent visit against a human visit, and how journeys move between consumer, agent, and retailer, is still unknown, and Ross sees that as the opportunity.
FAQ
What is a consumer AI agent? An agent that takes action on a person’s behalf, such as booking a hotel or comparing purchases, rather than only suggesting options. Ross cites Instinct booking a conference trip using his hotel loyalty details.
How should brands think about loyalty when an AI agent makes the purchase? Ross recommends treating the agent as an extension of the consumer. The brand still has to deliver value to the consumer, and the agent learns that value from the consumer’s repeated behavior.
What do companies need in place before AI agents can work with them? Ross names four areas: mindset, skill set, data set, and tool set. A site also has to be crawlable and structured so bots can scan and act on it.
Are AI agents a new marketing channel? Ross says no. Agents are an extension of omnichannel, and an agent that meets friction on a brand’s site may move to the place of least resistance.
How do you measure marketing when an AI agent filters your brand out? Start with a business outcome, such as sales growth or churn reduction, and work back to leading indicators. The relative value of agent and human visits has not been established yet.
About Robin Ross
I’m a marketing and strategy executive with 20+ years of experience driving growth through data, loyalty, and digital transformation. I’ve led initiatives that expand membership, strengthen customer engagement, and scale innovation across functions. My expertise includes marketing analytics, loyalty programs, digital transformation, and applying AI and data to accelerate decision-making. I focus on simplifying complexity, aligning teams, and building systems that deliver measurable results. I thrive at the intersection of strategy and execution—partnering with leaders to clarify goals, design customer-centric programs, and turn them into business impact.
Robin Ross on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-ross-activateinsight/
———- Resources ———-
The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://aglbrnd.co/r/2868abd8085a9703
The hardest part of martech right now is telling which tools are actually earning their keep. That’s the question running through the MarTech Summit Boston agenda on October 27. We’re attending MarTech Summit Boston on October 27 as a media partner. If you want to join, the code AGILE15 saves you 15%. https://aglbrnd.co/r/c70c250b8d52dff3
Need to evaluate martech, AI, or CX platforms and don’t know where to start? The Agile Brand Guide List is now in beta. We’re building the most useful, free-to-use, and up-to-date way to assess what truly matters when evaluating platforms. See more here: https://aglbrnd.co/r/f76be3a33cc491bb
Reach your customers with Reddit. Spend $500 in ad spend, get $500 back in ad credit! Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/491818c79fb1873f
Chaser is the only Slack-native project management platform that helps teams turn messages into tracked tasks, automate follow-ups, and maintain team-wide visibility, without adopting another tool. Now integrated with Claude and other GenAI tools. Learn more at trychaser.com and use code AGILEBRAND for a 3-month free trial (normal trial is 14 days).
Start building your own apps with Replit and get $20 off. Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/93531742a7625a20
Enjoyed the show? Tell us more and give us a rating so others can find the show: https://aglbrnd.co/r/faaed112fc9887f3
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don’t miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter, and check out Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://aglbrnd.co/r/35ded3ccfb6716ba
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Greg Kihlström: Hi, I’m Greg Kihlström, host of The Agile Brand, and here’s a question for you. What happens to a customer relationship you’ve spent decades building when an AI agent you don’t control decides whether your brand even makes the shortlist? We’re here live at MAICON 2026 in Cleveland, Ohio, and we’re gonna talk about what changes when consumer AI agents sit between brands and buyers.To help me discuss this topic, I’d like to welcome back to the show Robin Ross, Digital Analytics and Loyalty Executive at Activate Insight. Robin, welcome back. Always great to talk.
[00:01:12] Robin Ross: Hey, Greg. Great to be back. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:15] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, looking forward to diving in here. For those that didn’t catch a previous episode with you on it, why don’t you give a little background on you and your roles?
[00:01:22] Robin Ross: So I’ve worked in retail for 30-plus years, and more recently, probably in the last decade, been decently more involved in the technology side. So I, I’m really at this convergence of analytics and technology and really trying to use technology to, to make a better, uh, consumer experience.
[00:01:43] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Love it. So yeah, let’s, uh– And I mean, we’re– I think the interesting thing here is what does the definition of consumer experience, right? [chuckles] And, and so let’s-
[00:01:54] Robin Ross: And who’s the consumer?
[00:01:55] Greg Kihlström: Exactly. And I know, I think last, last year we talked at, at, at the same conference here in Cleveland, and I think we were just kind of on the cusp. But we were talking about kinda like what if this happened more quickly than, than it seemed like it was happening, and here we are today and, and sure enough, things are, things are on the move. So… And certainly agentic and AI agents is thrown around a lot and, you know, a lot of work I do is, is on the enterprise side of that. I know you, you work in, in that space as well. So AI agent is used for a lot of different things. But when we talk about consumers, what are we talking about when we talk about consumer agents?
[00:02:36] Robin Ross: It’s– So if we had this conversation probably two months ago, would, would’ve been different because I think agents have been probably one of the more hyped things that was truly vaporware that, that was out there. Like, I did not see great examples of what agents were, and I, I saw some really good automations that were in place, and I saw some, some evolution in the technology. But if you’ve been following what’s been going on with Muse or Instinct or what, what OpenAI has been doing with Dots, like literally in the last five or six weeks, my mind has changed because of what I saw in agents before was really more of a B2B play, and what I’m seeing now is agents that are acting on your behalf. And, uh, when, when I started playing with these agents and seeing what they could do, and it, it’s early days,
[00:03:38] Robin Ross: but the capabilities are impressive. So, uh, I started playing with Instinct for this trip, f-for, for example, to, to come out here. So I, I signed up, and it was originally, it was like a wait list to get on, and I was lucky to, to get in. And then I started giving Instinct permissions, and I said, “Hey, can you book my room for this trip to Cleveland coming in?” And it asked me for my, uh, a s- like my loyalty membership for my, uh, uh, hotel and everything, and dates and everything. And then it went back to say, “Oh, these are the rooms that are available. Is that part of a room block? Is that not part of a room block?” And then I found out that Instinct actually had an email that I could attach to it too. So I, I go, “Well, here’s my itinerary for the conference that’s going in.” And the coolest thing that, that happened, I was talking to a gentleman last night about it, is that Instinct, uh, came up with the idea, “Hey, I built you a website with all the information that you’ve built for me. So just in case you need it, go to this website because I’ve got your itinerary, I’ve got your schedule, and I’ve got the conference agenda on here, so it’s in one place.” So that’s the first time that I’d ever saw an agent make a decision on my behalf on something
[00:04:55] Robin Ross: that was gonna be useful to me, and I said, “Oh, things have changed.”
[00:04:59] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know, ’cause it’s one thing to… You know, a year or so ago I used ChatGPT to help me plan a vacation or whatever, but I then literally had to go and book all the stuff and-
[00:05:08] Robin Ross: You were doing all the work, right?
[00:05:09] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. It’s just like, it, it came up with some ideas, I guess you could say, but now actually, yeah, taking interaction on, on your behalf. And so, you know, that, that also means the brands involved in that have a very different relationship, right? I mean, instead of you logging into your hotel loyalty account or whatever the case may be, now they’ve got this agent. It’s almost like, you know, the sale is made, and then they find out that it’s you.
[00:05:37] Greg Kihlström: Or, uh, so, you know, talk to me a little bit about how does that change how a brand even thinks about that, that ex- that customer experience then?
[00:05:46] Robin Ross: So, so I, I don’t think we know yet, right? Because, uh, w-with Muse, early on, uh, so Muse being the, the Meta’s version or, or Facebook, uh, originally had access to Amazon. I co- I could have the, the sequencing wrong on this, but Amazon made a decision to shut it down. They did not want it to, to interact w-with their site because obviously they have some type of plans at some point that they want you to use their agent, and it really got me thinking- That is that a good thing, right? And do we– do I wanna use Amazon’s agent or do I wanna use my own agent? And then it got me thinking, is there this new space where the, the economy is gonna be agent to agent, right? Where I, I wanna use my agent. I, I am comfortable giving my agent my personal details and, and it training and learning about me, and then that agent working with Amazon’s agent or working with whatever retail agent is there, and they,
[00:06:51] Robin Ross: they do the exchange. My agent knows my preferences. It’s, it’s, it’s going– it knows what I’m looking for, it knows what I like and I don’t like, and I’d rather not have to train 100 different agents based on my preferences where I can train one agent and then all of a sudden that’s the job to, to go out and do it. And I, I don’t think anybody’s prepared for it. Like I, I really think most companies are barely prepared for AI, to, to be honest, when they’re– you’re looking at their site. Is their site even crawlable today? Are they showing up in GEO, AEO, or whatever the, the new buzzword we’re calling all, all this stuff is going on. And if they’re not, how are they even prepared for an agent to interact on their behalf, right? So it, it just really s- ha- ha- has me thinking about the gaps that are in place right now, what companies need to be solving for, and then what is really gonna… What, what’s kinda cool, and then what is, what is really gonna be valuable at some point. And r- right now I’m exploring and playing and, and doing things, and at some point I don’t wanna have nine agents, right? ‘Cause I- I’m trying to figure some things out. But where am I gonna pick a lane and kinda go into it that I, I will share more of my data once my trust is being built up. And, and a lot of people are in different, uh… I, I, I know when they think about Meta, there’s not a great reputation for, for the longest period of time in terms of personal data and, and how that use, but I’ve been impressed with how they’ve been, uh, compartmentalizing how they’re collecting data, protecting that data, making it separate from the, uh, the really the instance of the app. So I think they’re, they’re being quite cognitive in, in… or I guess, uh, intentional about how they’re, they’re, they’re really trying to bundle that now.
[00:08:41] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, in parallel to, to your earlier point about, uh, it, it gets back to also brands aren’t doing a great job of even personalization, right? So, um, you know, when I go to a we- when I personally navigate to a website and, and you know, some are doing better than others, but that also means I have to go to 10 different sites, and I have 10 different ways of looking at personalizing to Greg, for instance. So now we’ve got my agent, let’s say, going on my behalf. You know, how does a brand stand out to an ag- you know, how, how does a brand help an agent learn about what I might like? We’ve got this intermediary there that’s, you know, it’s kinda trained on what I like, but it only knows what it knows.
[00:09:29] Robin Ross: Is it gonna be better? Is it not gonna be better? And w- we’ve y- you, you bring up, bring up a great point is that we’re– we, we talk about how great personalization is gonna be, but who’s figured it out in a meaningful way? Uh, I, I, I can’t remember if I told, told you this story before, and I, I’m a customer of, uh, Nordstrom, right? So I have the credit card. Great company in terms of how, how they think about customer service and, and looking after, uh, their customers. But I got a loyalty email, my name is Robin Ross, and it says, “Dear Ramsha,” right? So they, they came to them, and it just– it got me thinking, like a company even as sophisticated as that hasn’t got the personalization figured out yet. And to, to me, that comes back to infrastructure. There’s basics you can’t leapfrog in this, right? Your data infrastructure has to be in place. And, and something I’ve been playing with th- this, this idea in terms of how, how companies need to be thinking about AI agents, all of these, these things is, is… a- and Colin, if you wanna build AI as an asset, there’s four, four things you need to be thinking about. So number one is your mindset in terms of how you’re approaching. Uh, like you have to think about the di- the business a lot differently, and a lot of people think of just bolting AI, AI on top of things,
[00:10:53] Robin Ross: where you may need to think about redesign, right? Like you may need to start from scratch. You may need to ignore everything you’ve done or, or take the biggest pieces. But it can’t just start from the place that we’re just gonna stack things on top and see if that makes work. That you kinda look at is in that Nordstrom example. Somebody thought, “Oh, let’s automate this. We’ve got the data. Just send that out,” and then all of a sudden I’m Ramsha, uh, in this, right? Number two goes into the skill set of the people using these tools, right? There’s a retraining, and I’ve seen it in, in my career so long, is that so many companies overbuy and underuse, right? Or underprepare the tool to use it, that they’re, they’re not ready, that you need the skill set to really activate everything that, that, that’s
[00:11:38] Robin Ross: going on to, to make this a great experience. Number three comes down to the data set, and to me it all has to do with things that are like, is your governance in place? Is your data organized? Is it centralized? Is it activatable? Because I do think there’s a massive difference between available and actionable, right? The data may be there, may be somewhere. Somebody may think it’s saved somewhere, but if I can’t action on it to create a good experience, th- it might as well not be there. I, I don’t think it’s valuable. Lastly, to me is tool set. Like that’s your martech stack and everything that’s been in there, and if you really wanna use the technology And AI to build it as an asset. It’s those four key areas that you need to really
[00:12:23] Robin Ross: be thinking about that’s gonna help you really create a secure infrastructure that’s going to, uh, set you up for success to have a good experience with your consumer.
[00:12:32] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. I know you’ve done a lot in the loyalty space as well, and so, you know, we- getting the customer is one thing and, you know, doing that transaction. What is loyalty? You know, loyalty is based so, so much on emo- it’s not completely emotion, but it’s based on emo- You know, you have a good experience with a brand, uh, you know, you return to them and, and things like that, or they keep offering good experiences, you return. What is loyalty to a, an agent? You know, what, what– how should a brand be thinking about that?
[00:13:06] Robin Ross: I’d so, so I… L- here’s how I’ve been thinking about it lately, and I reserve the right to change my opinion in the next twenty-four hours-
[00:13:13] Greg Kihlström: Sure. [laughs]
[00:13:13] Robin Ross: … as technology changes. But I, I think we need to think of not the con- the, the agent as a technology, but as an extension of the consumer, right? And when I think about it as an extension of the consumer, my job is to provide meaningful value to the consumer that is also judged through the agent, right? So the agent needs to know what value looks like to me, what, what a good experience looks like to me, and then acts on my behalf. And it’s gonna see that in the behavior that I do more often. So what, what, what’s– what is AI really good at? Pattern recognition. So more of this, please. More of that, please. So as I do more things,
[00:13:59] Robin Ross: I’m, I’m hoping, or at least in, in my mind, what I’m thinking is that the, the agent is training on, “Oh, it’s more, more of these things. This is what he’s looking for. There’s definitely more transactions in there.” And, and a- agents and AI, it’s binary, right? More math kind of gives you more training data that get there. But it, it really comes down to can– is it– did I create a better experience, less friction, more activity, uh, more value, more exploration in terms of breadth? Like, I think loyalty is really part of deepening that relationship with the consumer, and if an agent is a gateway to help do that, because dealing with your company is a better experience now, that, that’s a win. And I think that is something
[00:14:44] Robin Ross: is going to take a, a, a, a, a role in the loyalty space at some point.
[00:14:51] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there does– there needs to be some kind of way to input the emotional aspect of it too.
[00:14:59] Robin Ross: Absolutely.
[00:14:59] Greg Kihlström: So yeah. It’s like… ‘Cause I, I think the, the worst-case scenario, I don’t think it’ll happen, but you know, the worst-case scenario is that it literally just comes down to zeros and ones.
[00:15:07] Greg Kihlström: And then you lose out on things that you would actually, as a human, enjoy or like or appreciate, but because it gets filtered out due to some, you know, algorithm whatever, you start seeing less and less of things that you would actually emotionally enjoy, right?
[00:15:24] Robin Ross: It’s, it’s, it’s the, the Instagram, TikTok algorithm thing, right?
[00:15:30] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. It’s like compressing to the norm
[00:15:31] Robin Ross: … I gave some signal, but all of a sudden, this is all I get.
[00:15:34] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. We have ruined every technology, right? So email turned into spam, right? And, and social media turned into, to different things. So, so I, I worry about, uh, this space as well too, and I, I think we’re– it’s fifty-fifty what’s gonna happen in there, just because, uh, e- and especially the, the tools that are not monetizing them, they, they gotta find revenue somewhere. And, uh, d- my, my experience has been if you’re not paying for the product, you are the product, right?
[00:16:11] Robin Ross: So just that, that sense of you, you should be a wary consumer as well. How, how I think about, a- as I’m thinking about agents and, and AI is, is not that agents are a channel, but really agents are just an extension of what omni-channel is, right? This is where your site needs to be structured a lot differently to make it scannable and searchable as a bot. Uh, your– it, it needs to come in with that level of intelligence that’s gonna help it act on my behalf. But it, but it’s not just a, a channel, and if you’re providing friction to my agent as well too, then is my agent just gonna go to the place of least resistance, right? There’s not a help, uh, in going here, and I think
[00:16:56] Robin Ross: that, that, that is things we’re gonna have to watch and learn, just because y- like, Instinct I think is a twelve-month-old company, right? Like they, like these technologies are being spun up in months. Uh, and that, that is the great thing about AI in, in terms of the building, but have you skipped any steps there, right?
[00:17:18] Greg Kihlström: Yeah.
[00:17:18] Robin Ross: And, and where, where are you at in doing it? So I think it’s early days, but it’s exciting signals that we’re seeing.
[00:17:24] Greg Kihlström: Well, next year we’ll have to talk about agent experience, right? [laughs]
[00:17:26] Robin Ross: No kidding.
[00:17:27] Greg Kihlström: ‘Cause that’s-
[00:17:28] Robin Ross: I think it’ll be a thing.
[00:17:29] Greg Kihlström: Right.
[00:17:30] Robin Ross: And, and where did I land? Did I, did I– am I a Muse guy or am I a Dots guy, or who came into it and then actually leapfrogged all of them?
[00:17:37] Greg Kihlström: Yeah, yeah. So as, as we wrap up here, um, I wanna talk a little bit about measurement and how, you know, h- obviously there’s some things stay the same. We’re still looking at conversions and sales and, and stuff like that. You know, that doesn’t go away. But, um, this is, to your point, it’s a, it’s a new part of the channel and it’s a new channel, so to speak, even. And so, you know, instead of conversion drop-off, sometimes we don’t even know that we were part of the potential-
[00:18:09] Robin Ross: Or even the consideration set already.
[00:18:10] Greg Kihlström: Exactly. So, like, how, how should a brand be thinking about measuring all of this when they may not even get a lot of signals in some cases?
[00:18:19] Robin Ross: I, I think it’s, it’s, uh, as I said, early days and, and more things to, to figure out, but all, all measurement needs to start with business outcome.
[00:18:28] Greg Kihlström: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Robin Ross: I, I think you can create so much noise in terms of Clicks and, and space and, and, and, I just, I’m a firm believer is I can check all those boxes and still be a failure, right? Like, so if we’re not starting with a business outcome out of there, is that, is that sales growth? Is that reduction in churn? Is that, like what i- what is that, uh, uh, business outcome that we’re trying to drive? And then what are the leading indicators of that? And then I think in agents, we’re not 100% sure yet, right? Like, I don’t think we have it all figured out because is a, is like, what’s the stronger signal? A consumer human visit or is it an agent visit, right? And is an, an eigh- is, is it a five to one, right? And, and so I,
[00:19:13] Robin Ross: I think the, i- it’s wide open right now for us to figure out. I think that’s the exciting piece, that somebody’s gonna find the signal in the data that means, oh, like one human visit is worth five agent visits. Or, or maybe the, the sequencing is different so that it leads to agent-agent human, right? Like there’s this whole sequence of events now that my agent starts a relationship with you, but I wanna take over at some point, right? Or I need to do some tuning that’s gonna happen in there, and that’s, that’s, that kind of becomes this, this throuple, so to speak, right?
[00:19:46] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Right, right.
[00:19:46] Robin Ross: It’s me, my agent, and, and the, and the, the, the retailer that are now part of this, this new experience.
[00:19:52] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Love it. Well, yeah, lot- lots to, lots to talk about next year when we do this, at MAICON. Um, but we’re still here. You know, we- things just kicked off here. What are you most looking forward to at this, uh, at this conference?
[00:20:04] Robin Ross: The, so this is my third year at MAICON. Uh, c- certainly I’m a massive fan, uh, of Paul and, and his thinking about AI. Always walk away, uh, learning something new. I’m particularly interested today, Andrew Yang is gonna be speaking. And, and certainly he was the, the first guy that I ever heard talk about UBI, right? And this universal basic income and that… And I remember when he was running for office, he was all about that, like, the trucking jobs are gonna go away, right? Like all these things are gonna go away, and we’re, we may have to figure out how to keep people gainfully employed. And I’ve been watching his evolution on this, and he, he made a, a, a real interesting statement on a podcast I saw about a year ago is that today the government does not have great mechanisms to solve this, right? Like, and i- if our only solution is, is… And who knows what’s gonna happen with jobs. We saw a great keynote from, from Paul this morning where he’s,
[00:21:05] Robin Ross: he’s got concerns about what’s gonna happen to, to, to jobs, but also is taking on a responsibility that like what are we gonna do as business to do that? But I, I do think if the only solution is to, to, if, if, if work is gonna reduce, where are we gonna get meaning, right? And, and I, the, the, it’s this, this am I an optimist or a pessimist? And the, the debate is very intriguing to me, and, uh, I’m really interested in wh- where Andrew’s thoughts have evolved to now that he’s, he’s been very, very high in tech. Uh, but now just in this political move he’s been making, a big advocate where technology is gonna play a role here. But
[00:21:50] Robin Ross: I, I, I wanna see where his thinking’s gonna be in terms of what is this gonna look like in five years.
[00:21:55] Greg Kihlström: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, looking forward to that as well. [laughs]
