How can a single “moment of truth” with your brand exist when customers are unique, their experiences personalized, and the world continually changing? What if the success of your brand depends not on a single moment, but on an unlimited number of moments you might not even be aware of?
This episode is brought to you by The Office of Experience, a design-driven, digital-first, vertically integrated, and collaborative agency that believes in the power of ideas and the strength of people.
Today we’re going to discuss how to design for infinite moments of trust with Stratton Cherouny, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of The Office of Experience. We’ll dive into how brands can manage the many “moments of truth” that define the customer experience and ultimately drive loyalty and trust.
About Stratton Cherouny
Stratton Cherouny co-founded OX in 2014 after nearly 15 years working with digital and branding agencies in New York and Chicago. His client experience ranges from boutique brands in the lifestyle and apparel space to multinational leaders in consumer products, financial services, industrial manufacturing, and consulting. Throughout his career, Stratton has been at the forefront of innovation in brand transformation, design thinking and digital innovation.
Resources
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Transcript
Note: this was AI-generated and only lightly edited.
Greg Kihlstrom:
How can a single moment of truth with your brand exist when customers are unique, their experience is personalized, and the world continually changing? What if the success of your brand depends not on a single moment, but on an unlimited number of moments you might not even be aware of? This episode is brought to you by the Office of Experience, a design-driven, digital-first, vertically-integrated, and collaborative agency that believes in the power of ideas and the strength of people. Today, we’re going to discuss how to design for infinite moments of truth with Stratton Cherouny, co-founder and co-CEO of the Office of Experience. We’re gonna dive into how brands can manage the many moments of truth that define customer experience and ultimately drive loyalty and trust. Stratton, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Greg. Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. Before we dive in, why don’t we, if you don’t mind, just giving a brief background and introduction on yourself as well.
Stratton Cherouny: Sure, yeah. I’m co-founder and co-CEO of the Office of Experience. I’ve spent the vast part of my career, almost 30 years now, on the agency side helping businesses and brands of all size from Fortune 50 to small startups. really advance their brand and business by creating smart experiences, brand-driven, digital-driven, analytics-supported experiences of all kinds.
Greg Kihlstrom: Great, great. So yeah, let’s dive in here. And we’re talking about a few things, but let’s start by talking about this idea of moments of truth and brand experience. So this idea has been around for a little while, but for those a little less familiar with the term, can you explain?
Stratton Cherouny: Sure, yeah. It’s really a concept that’s born out of consumer product goods. I have a very, very past life in package design. It’s one of my passion points. I love going into grocery stores and looking at these tiny little billboards that are packages all over grocery store shelves and aisles. And I was first coined in the early 2000s by Procter& Gamble CEO A.G. Lafley. And he said, you know, there were two moments of truth that he called sort of make or break moments that determine a positive or negative outcome for a brand. And he called the first one in-store when the customer decides whether to buy this product or that. And it makes sense given P&G’s focus on consumer product goods and the importance that package design plays in environments like that. And then the second one also makes sense for them, he says, occurs when the customer gets home and uses the product. For an innovation company like P&G, obviously if the product doesn’t work, they’re not going to get repeat sales. Then a little bit later on with the advent of user-generated content and the rise of social media, he defined a third moment of truth, and that’s when the customer decides to advocate on your behalf, whether they choose to go out review the product, tell your friends about it, shout about it on Facebook, Instagram, and everywhere else. And since then, a number of other companies, Google and among others, have added additional moments of truth. But that’s essentially it. A moment of truth is a make or break moment where the customer’s going to decide whether they’re going to buy that product or ultimately ditch it for something else.
Greg Kihlstrom: Got it, got it. And so, you know, as I shared at the top of the show and you’re saying just now, know a single moment isn’t really enough to to design for right can you can you explain how this concept has evolved and why we need to think about not just one two or three moments of truth but you know n moments of truth
Stratton Cherouny: Sure, if you think about, and I’ll start by just talking about the evolution of customer experience, whether we’re talking about a consumer product goods sold at retail or a piece of industrial equipment sold through distribution, you know, we’ve gone from like a world of monolithic channels, one single channel controlled largely by the brand, to a whole bunch of channels chosen by and often created by the customers themselves. In other words, today’s customer is in charge of when, where, and how to engage with brands. That’s not just when it comes to the purchase itself, but also how customers educate themselves before buying. It’s also about how they learn to use a product or how and where to discuss the pros and cons of it. And so in order to win in an environment like that, brands need to really think holistically, take a holistic, broad approach to driving customer experience. Because how the brand handles each of these increasingly discreet moments of truth is the make or break difference.
Greg Kihlstrom: So then how do you do it, I guess? Right. It’s like, how do you approach designing for multiple moments of truth? And, you know, you’ve kind of already talked about why it’s critical for for the customer experience. But, you know, how does this play into lasting customer relationships as well?
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah. And, you know, it’s going to sound a little philosophical, perhaps, but it starts by accepting that your brand is not what you say it is. Rather, it’s what your customers experience it to be at every moment of interaction that they have with it. And therefore, you know, it’s a stack effect. It adds up over time, click by click, tap by tap, interaction by interaction. Each one a potential make it or break it moment so that it starts with accepting that first once you accept that your brand is really what your customers experience it to be then you’re on your way to being truly customer centric to understanding what your customers expect from you at every moment of interaction. and making sure you deliver on those expectations, or to decide whether you want to set different expectations in the first place. So it’s not only the process that matters, it’s the mindset.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah. Yeah. And so I want to talk a little bit about the expectation part of this too, because, you know, any brand out there, you know, marketers listening out there, I mean, certainly, you know, not only is competition fierce, but customer expectations continually rise. I mean, based on, you know, an experience they had somewhere else or so on and so forth. So, Can you talk a little bit about this? How does a brand manage this intersection of expectation and reality? How can brands better understand these customer expectations that they bring to every moment? Again, not just one or two anymore, but every moment of interaction. What strategies should brands use to align reality with those expectations?
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah, I’d say the first is really spending time in their customer’s shoes, listening to what they say and watching what they do when interacting with your product or service. It’s amazing how many companies claim to be customer centric yet have no formal customer insights practice whatsoever. You know, no people with that title, no consistent activity around going out. And I’m not talking about just conducting customer surveys. That’s great. I mean, really watching and listening to how your customers are behaving at multiple moments in time. Because if you’re not doing that, it’s very possible you don’t even have the ability to identify what is a moment of truth. And you’re going to be surprised by that. So the first part, you know, truly spending, you know, days and hours in your customer’s shoes. But the brand also has a role in choosing what expectations they’d like to set in the first place. I mean, after all, it’s kind of what a brand is at the end of the day. Right. I don’t think Apple has designed a football stadium, but when I say that, you probably have a pretty distinct image in your mind of what a football stadium designed by Apple would look and feel like. Can you say the same as Chevrolet or Mazda? No offense to the Chevy and Mazda folks, but I have a hard time determining what that brand is really trying to be out there in a distinct and unique way. And so the brand has a responsibility to set those expectations as well.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah. And I know you mentioned a few brands there, but can you share an example maybe where a brand successfully bridged this gap you know, between expectations and reality to enhance the customer experience.
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah, if the business travel junkies out there might get this one right off the bat, it’s one that I think about really quite a lot. And you think about the car rental market and, you know, you think how many times have you gone to rent a car online and you go through the process and you think, here are my dates, my destinations, where origin, where am I to pick it up? And then, and then you’re asked to select the, you know, level or model of car you want to rent. And you choose full size and there’s a picture of that car and it says it’s going to be model XYZ or similar option. And you get through the process and you finally, you know, get to the rental counter only to find out they have no cars even remotely like that whatsoever. Right. I’ve been there. And you’re like, you’re super disappointed before your rental process even begins, right? Right. So in comes National Car Rental, and they really flip the script on its head by eliminating that expectation altogether and putting the control in the customer’s hands. If you think about the logistics requirements of getting the exact car someone selected online to them in a lot, Just in time, it’s a really, really challenging problem for car rental companies to solve. And yet it’s a big frustration in the mind of the consumer. And it’s also a huge amount of time that’s spent at counter where you really could be getting that customer out on the road much faster. especially for business travelers, time is money, and that makes a big difference to them. And so when they came out with the Pick Any Car and Go platform, it was not just a campaign slogan. It was really a brand promise that virtually eliminated the possibility for disappointment in the mind of the customer. And it also sped up the rental process. You know, as I said, that’s something everybody’s trying to do. And so that’s an example I turn to time and again, where it’s like, here’s a big frustration point in the mind of the customer. And the brand on the other side of it meets that with a new reality that matches expectation. And it’s a really wonderful example of that.
Greg Kihlstrom: I love that too, because it’s a win-win-win. Because, you know, think of the employee sitting behind the the desk as well. So, you know, you’ve got a happier customer. You’ve actually have an employee that’s dealing with less customer, because we’ve all been, or anyone who has been in line at a car rental place, there’s usually at least one frustrated customer in line. And yeah, logistically, I mean, think, yeah, so it’s definitely, I love that example.
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah, and there’s really nothing the person behind the counter can do about it. It’s just the reality of the business. that they’re in, unless they decide to, you know, like Silvercar, just decide they’re gonna provide one type of car and that’s it. But most rental businesses are not, that’s not their business model. So it’s something that the person behind the counter can’t solve anyway and just creates tension for everybody.
Greg Kihlstrom: So, you know, we talk a lot about AI and other, you know, personalization, other types of technology and Martek on the show quite a bit in thinking about these moments of truth. And, you know, we’ve already talked about how, you know, there certainly there’s more than one, two, three, five moments of truth potentially here. But, you know, we are in a world now where infinite moments of truth mean, you know, with personalization, with Gen AI, with all of these things, this is not only something that’s theoretically possible, but it is possible and becoming more possible. So, you know, as technology advances, new moments of truth are emerging even. How can brands leverage some technology to manage and anticipate these moments more effectively?
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah, and Olga, you sort of underscored it. Really, it’s technological innovation and creativity that has been the biggest impact on shaping the expectations that we have and the realities that we can bring to bear for our customers. And it’s going to sound, you know, 101 here, but I think the most powerful example in the past decade or more has been the smartphone and bundling GPS and other technologies along with the sophisticated software that companies are building to innovate new customer experiences. One of the examples that I point to really frequently is the Domino’s pizza tracker. The world didn’t think it needed to track a $20 pizza in real time until Domino’s released the pizza tracker. And that’s only been made by such technology. And the interesting thing about that is now the same level of experience that we have with the pizza tracker is expected when we go to buy and track an order for a $500,000 piece of custom built industrial equipment, or we’re looking for a $75,000 concrete order to be delivered to us. And so that’s where constant technological innovation and experiences from other categories start to constantly shift expectations around. And I have no doubt that, you know, AI, generative AI, predictive AI, or just, you know, as Elon Musk would say, digital intelligence is going to continue to push the envelope.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah. Well, and along those lines, also on the, both on the delivery side of things, but also on the analytics side, you know, what role do analytics and automation play in helping brands manage these customer interactions across an infinite number of touchpoints?
Stratton Cherouny: Sure. I mean, crucial. Yeah, absolutely crucial. Analytics, or just data more broadly, is critical in ensuring that you trigger the right responses at the right time. There’d be almost no automation possible, or at least no personalization or automation that’d be effective without without that component and that component being right. And if you think about something like what happens after you place an order online, there are companies like Narvar that have built entire businesses around the gap between an order placed and an order delivered. Because there’s a lot of customer anxiety in those moments, those days or weeks. or whatever it takes. And through the right use of data and the right response system, Narvar keeps customers informed about the status of their order, where it is in the shipping process, and then makes it easy to manage exceptions and returns after delivery. But it’s not enough just to have data. It has to be clean and well-structured and structured in such a way that it provides the information in an actionable way.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah. Well, and then, you know, the data then provides some feedback loops, right? So that new, either new experiences can be designed or existing experiences can be redesigned or improved. So, you know, given, you know, every moment of interface with a brand could potentially be a moment of truth. How do you look at anticipating and designing for this unlimited number of moments?
Stratton Cherouny: You’re totally right. The data, the insights, it’s the wellspring for the roadmap. We’d say at first, you can’t boil the ocean, but you can try to boil buckets and maybe even ponds. You have to prioritize which areas of the customer journey you’re going to address at any given time based on the level of effort, over customer and business impact. And of course, that’s an activity that’s always in flux as priorities shift and, you know, new opportunities emerge, but it takes constant grooming to maintain that robust innovation backlog. And it just, you know, it can’t happen without the insights and data necessary to inform it.
Greg Kihlstrom: What are some of the biggest challenges that brands face? I mean, you kind of, you mentioned the, you know, boil the ocean. So I would imagine there’s a bit of you know, what do we do first, right? But, you know, what are some of the biggest challenges that brands face when trying to do this and do it well to design for these multiple moments of truth?
Stratton Cherouny: I think it goes a little bit back to something we said earlier, and that’s going from thinking they know what their customer thinks to feeling what it’s like to be in their shoes. And I’d say that’s true of customer-centered thinking in general, but it’s particularly true in this conversation, because unless you really know what your customer is going through, it’s hard to know what’s a moment of truth and what’s not. What’s the big kettle of fish that’s worth working on, and what’s a red herring that you can let go?
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you used the example of the Domino’s pizza tracker earlier. And, you know, I think that’s, and also, you know, drew some analogies to some other industries. I mean, you know, why wouldn’t we want to track, you know, if we’re tracking a $20 pizza, why wouldn’t we want to track something much more expensive and maybe mission critical to our organization? So, you know, this idea of learning from other industries, how should brands think about that? You know, what, what, how should they think about applying the right insights and the right ideas from other sectors to, to enhance their, their customer experiences and their own moments of truth?
Stratton Cherouny: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think the first challenge is to recognize that an industry sector is just a categorization model. You know, the, the walls are really fluid and that’s because the, the, an industry is made up of human beings like you and I, Who have lives outside of the time they spend in industry and whenever you’re going about your daily business you run into a way of doing things it’s made your life easier more delightful. Chances are it’s just a matter of time before that same idea. makes its way to your industry. And that’s a big part of how human creativity and innovation works. And I’ll give you an example, and that’s our client Mack Trucks is a, you know, 125 year old manufacturer of trucks primarily sold in North America. And, you know, we’re constantly looking for ways to create new customer experiences that help their customer become more informed about their products. in ways that are very convenient to them, that are very tailored to them, specific to their business, and with people who really understand their business. And we recently helped them launch an industry-first live virtual tour experience with a Mack truck of their choosing and a product expert from Mack Trucks who’s not a salesperson. They’re not incentivized to sell trucks. They’re just there to be a product expert and what that does is enable enables a customer to get really well informed about a product maybe when they’re ready to have a deeper conversation then. than just using a configurator online, but they’re not quite ready to engage a dealer salesperson in a deeper sales conversation. And so that’s a great idea of seeing what’s going on. It’s a great example of seeing what’s going on out there in the consumer world, particularly automotive, and applying it to another industry. Because end of the day, again, a buyer of a class A truck is also a buyer of an automobile at one point in time. And so the experience they have in that world is really transferable to their role in the buyer of class A trucks.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, so I mean, and that’s a great, you know, whether it’s that whether it’s the the pizza tracker, you know, great, great ideas of applying something, whether it’s one industry or even cross, you know, from from the food space to something completely different as well. What do you do? And you know, what, what would your recommendations to those out there to, you know, encourage this kind of, You could call it curiosity, cross-industry learning. How do you get people to think this way better and just to try to stay ahead of these customer expectations?
Stratton Cherouny: I think so much of understanding the shifting sands, if you will, of expectation is about just keeping your ears and eyes open, being open to new ways of doing things and wondering how that might apply to your own situation or your client’s business. And for us at OX, cultivating our lives outside of work is really important to us. I think creative people in general, this might be more natural to a creative person than another type of person. Nevertheless, we have a thing called the GTFOX card. It’s literally the get the F out of OX card, where if you’re, and this happens with creative people quite a lot, if you’re ever feeling burned out or like you just need to recharge the batteries and get inspired, you can pull the card on your manager and hit the bricks. Go out, go experience something new, go to a museum, go to a place you haven’t been before. and recharge the creative mind and get fresh eyes out there on the world and bring it back to the work that you do every day. That’s really important to us. And I think that’s the kind of mindset that we want to see from companies that want to adopt this way of thinking.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that’s, that is literally, you know, applying the same principles, right? Cause it’s, I mean, going to a museum, that’s, let’s call it cross-industry, if not even more so. So it kind of reinforces and it teaches that idea of just pulling. And I mean, again, I think this is also why we humans are going to be around for a little bit longer, at least in the fight against AI or whatever, is this idea of being able to pull these very abstract concepts from one thing to another. So yeah, I think that’s powerful. Looking forward, how do you see this concept of infinite moments of truth shaping experience design? What should brands be doing today to think a few steps ahead and prepare for the next wave of customer expectations?
Stratton Cherouny: Yeah, I think some of this we touched on quite a bit already, but I’d say, you know, the fundamental principles of experience design haven’t really changed, you know, being very customer-centric first, outside-in versus inside-out, and the way that we approach innovation in general. But I think what has really become more imperative is a multidisciplinary approach, you know, the benefit of bringing lots of different disciplines to bear is where we’re going to get those different viewpoints of understanding where expectations are being set in one place and we can apply them to another in our business or brand or category or what have you. So I think continuing to be ever more interdisciplinary and ever more diverse in our sources of inspiration.
Greg Kihlstrom: Yeah, I love that. Stratton, thanks so much for joining today. One last question before we wrap up here, something I like to ask everybody. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do that consistently?
Stratton Cherouny: Great question. So, I mean, I think, you know, curiosity is a lifelong quest, right? It’s a choice to remain curious. And I’m always wondering what if this experience over here was like that one over there so that the little game to play prior in our conversation about, well, what would a football stadium look like if Apple designed it? Is a way that I’m constantly staying fresh. You could ask the same thing of Under Armour or any brand that has a very distinct point of view. What would they do in this situation? How would they approach it? And I think that constantly helps reframe where you are and what you’re trying to accomplish and to constantly stay fresh.
